Any special instructions for these connections?

[rationull]

This morning I started working on removing the intake manifold from my 454 Suburban for the gasket replacement. Going OK so far aside from stupidly breaking a clip that attaches the cruise control cable to the throttle body, oh well.

Two hose connections that I have to remove are scaring me a little, and I wanted to post before screwing something up.

First, the EGR tube (which I've been warned about on BITOG before):

I need to get a wrench big enough, seems to be around 1.5 inches. I don't quite get how this is attached to the manifold, though. Do I crank on the big part or the little part? Or do I need to hold one while I crank on the other?

Second one is this header hose going into the lower manifold:

This one looks simple enough but there's a little plastic clip inside the connector that broke when I poked at it a little. Not sure what the plastic piece is for unless it's just a clip that holds the hose in place, in which case hopefully I can just buy another clip.


Any insights? This is gonna take me a while and I'm wishing I wasn't doing it, but the money saved over taking it in will hopefully be worth it...

 

[Chris142]

The heater fitting will break off. This fitting is also a restrictor. Your supposed to squeeze The plastic parts together then pull the pipe out of it. I have never seem The clip sold seperatly.,

 

[NHGUY]

That fitting is very popular with Dorman products.Not overly expensive but the only way I know of that you can buy it readily.

 

[yonyon]

The EGR pipe:
Use one wrench to hold the hex by that metal pipe. Use another wrench to unscrew the other hex by the valve. You do NOT want that pipe to twist.

The heater pipe coupler:
Once you've broken the plastic clip, you'll need to buy a new coupler/connector. Any GM dealership will stock this item as will almost any parts store that sells much to repair shops. If you don't want to risk snapping that coupler off, you can remove the plastic clip and put the clip from the new coupler back in its stead. This means you still have that old rotten coupler in there though, and it can snap off while driving without warning.

These tend to snap off when you try to unscrew them. If you can still run the engine and the coolant is still full, you might do well to idle the engine until it reaches normal coolant temperature, plus 10 minutes to let the intake warm up. If you have any Kroil, let it soak into the threads while the engine is warming up. If available, use a swivel socket (or socket and u-joint) and a long extension to unscrew this unless you wrench on things a lot. Use two hands. You want to apply only torsional force. Using a simple box or open end wrench makes it easy to snap the thing off.

If the coolant is no longer full, you can use a heat gun or torch to heat the intake around the coupler. If you do this, keep in mind that fuel lines, wires, and most plastic and rubber parts shouldn't be heated up too much. Heat shields can easily be made from scrap sheet metal, metal foil, water-soaked paperboard, or other materials as needed. Wet cotton cloth makes for a nice instant heat sink. Make your heat sheilds _before_ you melt or burn something that you will want later.

Once you've successfully broken the coupler off in the manifold without unscrewing it, you're going to want an assistant with a heat gun. You also want a nice sharp chisel that's big enough to bite into the coupler, but small enough not to damage the threads of the intake. Heat the manifold until the heat transfered into the coupler softens it enough that you can hammer the chisel into it. Keep the heat on the intake. Don't take the heat away until you get the coupler out or something burns. Use a suitable tool such as a deep impact socket hammered onto the chisel to try unscrewing the coupler. If it still won't budge but feels like the chisel might slip soon, use a socket and long extension with a breaker bar. Have a second assistant (first assistant is still operating the heat gun) hammer the breaker bar with ever increasing force in such a manner as to drive the chisel deeper into the coupler while you continue to torque the breaker bar counterclockwise. This will work unless your assistants don't do what you tell them to do.

Alternatively, you can use a small reciprocating saw to make two cuts in the coupler from the inside out, cutting it into two pieces of equal size. Dig them out with a smallish straight screwdriver. This will damage the threads of the intake, but a little loctite 660 will work to prevent any leaks. Use this method only if you're absolutely sure you won't want to remove the new coupler from the manifold at some later date.

 

[mechtech2]

Adjustable wrenches can by used for the big fitting.
But hold the other part , or else it will almost certainly break.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Adjustable wrenches can by used for the big fitting.
But hold the other part , or else it will almost certainly break.


I am hoping to use an adjustable wrench on it (one side) since big end wrenches seem to be kind of expensive!



Originally Posted By: yonyon
The EGR pipe:
Use one wrench to hold the hex by that metal pipe. Use another wrench to unscrew the other hex by the valve. You do NOT want that pipe to twist.
...


This is confusing to me. Looking at it more, the whole thing looks just like a flare fitting on a home gas line, and it really looks like you need to unscrew the big nut on the hose rather than the fitting between the hose and the manifold... Why would the nut on the hose/pipe twist the hose?


Originally Posted By: Chris142
The heater fitting will break off. This fitting is also a restrictor. Your supposed to squeeze The plastic parts together then pull the pipe out of it. I have never seem The clip sold seperatly.,


So it sounds like you can take the hose out without unscrewing the fitting? I hope so... The fitting doesn't look very corroded (at least from the outside) and I'd love to not have to risk breaking it off.

 

[rationull]

OK, this is pretty annoying. After plenty of looking, I finally found a 1-3/8" wrench to use along with a big adjustable wrench on this EGR fitting. Got home tonight all prepared to hold the small nut w/ the end wrench and turn the big one with the adjustable. But:

It's about 2mm too wide!! That's as far as it will go -- it's blocked on one side by the manifold side (which is round and a little bigger) and on the other by the nut on the EGR hose.

Am I stupid or unlucky? The pickings seem slim for large slim wrenches online at affordable prices, let alone locally. Do I have to scrounge one up somehow or is there some kind of trick I don't know about using more conventional tools (preferably that won't destroy things)?

 

[OVERKILL]

Take a grinder to your wrench to slim it down.

 

[rationull]

It crossed my mind. I don't have anything that could grind it down though, and I didn't really want to get quite that deeply invested in new tooling right now. Hmm...

 

[rationull]

I have some reason to suspect that the 1-3/8" wrench Harbor Freight carries might fit, but that's a 60 mile round trip for me. I think I'm going to try a slip nut wrench, and failing that, see if I can find anywhere local that carries slim industrial wrenches like this for remotely "normal" prices.

 

[beaker60]

First off,,you need to soak all of these fittings with a real good rust penetrant,,let it soak for about 24 hours.I have done a minimum of 1000 BBC intakes,,so I have had a lot of experience with what you're dealing with,,,secondly,,I know you don't want to get involved with new tooling,,but sometimes,,this can't be avoided.These tools will keep you from breaking stuff you don't want broke,,NOW,,,the EGR tube,,after soaking,,,put a wrench on the main nut,,and try breaking it loose,,don't worry about the second wrench quite yet,,if you can get any of it to move,,then take your time and slowly unscrew the fitting as a whole until you get enough allowable room to put the second wrench on it
Next,,your heater fitting,,,soak this piece real well,,but I'll be honest with you,,90% of the time,,those fitting corrode so badly in the mainfold,,that they break off,no matter how careful you are,,but that's ok too,,like I said,,sometimes you have to spend money on tools,,,they make a kit,,specifically designed for the removal of that fitting,,and,,it's not that expensive,,the kit consists of an easy-out and a tap for re-threading the manifold,,but you might get lucky if you soak it for a long enough time.Make sure you don't use an adjustable wrench on this fitting,,if you do,,,it WILL break of in the manifold,,try and find a deep well socket that fits snug,If I'm not mistaken,,it's a 24mm,,but again,,don't qoute me on that,, then very slowly try and turn it out.They way they corrode will make it slow going,,but try and turn it out using just enough torque.Once you get the fitting out,,it's a good idea to get a small wire brush,,like a tooth brush and clean out the threads,,so the new fitting won't bind up.That's about all I can tell ya at this point,,,remember,,soak,soak,soak,,with penatrating oil,,give it sometime to work it's magic,,I recommend,,aero-kroil,,but there are lot of other good ones,,BUT,,,and I repeat myself,,,soak,soak,soak,,DO NOT,,get in a hurry,,,you do not want to be replacing intake manifolds or other parts,,just because you got in a hurry,,,OH,,and one other thing,,just rememeber,,if a fitting does break off,,just wait until you have the manifold or whatever,,out on the bench before trying any repairs.If you need any help,,,give me a shout and I'll walk you through it.I hope this helps.

 

[rationull]

beaker: thank you very much for your detailed response, much appreciated. I have not been stuck on a single fastener for this long before

I don't actually mind getting more tools, I just prefer to maximize the utility of new tool acquisitions as much as possible, or if that's not possible at least avoid spending $100 on a wrench. I've been back and forth to sears a couple of times now (over the work week) to pick up new tools to try and nothing has worked so far. But today I bit the bullet and made the 50 mile round trip to the nearest Harbor Freight and picked up a couple things: a set of jumbo angled end wrenches which according to my measurements are narrow enough (unlike the beefy Craftsman pictured above), and a set of very narrow "service wrenches" which are short enough I should be able to brace against some wood on the valve cover if need be. I'm going to try tomorrow morning, and if I don't get it broken loose, it's off to the store to get a propane torch and try to add heat.

I have already broken loose the EGR fitting's connection to the manifold, but the big nut on the tube seems to be on pretty tight. I have soaked it liberally with Liquid Wrench and then tapped it a bit every time I've tried to loosen it so it's had plenty of soaking time.


I will soak the heater fitting pretty well too, and was planning to get a socket for it (although actually, if it really is metric, I may already have a deep 6 pt socket for it -- I'l have to measure it). Good to know there's a repair kit for it since it sounds like it's likely it'll break. I *am* glad that at least w/ the heater fitting, it can be repaired off the car like you said.

I'm hoping to make some good progress this weekend. I will update with whatever happens.

 

[yonyon]

If you do go with the torch remember:

-Penetratings oils will wick in faster and probably farther if you heat up the stuck joint before application. If it's too hot they burn off, but that just gives you a little graphite lube in place and a foul smell, so just spray a little more and all is good.

-If you use your heat for differential heating you heat the outside, not the inside. Faster heating works better than slower heating unless you get too hot (not likely with propane.) try to heat evenly around the outside, not in one very hot spot. If you take your heat away for more than a few seconds on such a small piece, whenther it helped or not, let it cool to near room temperature (within maybe 15 degrees F) of room temperature before applying more heat.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
If you do go with the torch remember...


Thanks, I didn't actually know either of those things. I am totally inexperienced with using a torch, and am hoping to avoid gaining that experience right now. I'll be sure to set up some good heat shields and do some reading first if it comes to that.

 

[beaker60]

Hey Bud,,,,I'll make it a point of trying to find the part number for that extraction kit,,I know for a fact,,that they're pretty generic kits,I got mine from Cornwell tools,but I know that other companies sell them,,like I said,,,they aren't that expensive and they are definately worth the investment as opposed to having to buy a intake.I've had to extract so many of those fittings,I was really glad when GM did away with that whole business,,anyway,,again,good luck and like I said,if you need help,just give me a shout,,I myself,am in the process of rebuilding the engine in my s10,,it's a little bitty thing,,,a circle track 360ci small block,,I'm putting new cylinder heads on it and I've been trying to get everything done while I have the engine out,,AKA:,,new fuel system,new brake system,,,,Jjjuuuusssttt,,,,don't have all the money I need to get it all done at once.But,,the one part I like about living in GA,,,we don't have emissions,,,so I can do just about anything I want.I lived in Cali for 28 years,,and I remember all to well,,not being able to do half the stuff I wanted to my hotrods.Talk to ya soon

 

[rationull]

Got the EGR tube off this morning, it came off easy with the ~18 inch long Harbor Freight open wrench on the fitting and my 15" adjustable on the rotating nut. No heat necessary, although over the last week I've probably sprayed it with about 5 ounces of liquid wrench

Got the upper manifold removed and drained the coolant this afternoon. The coolant is pretty dirty, who knows how old it is. The upper IM gasket is a blue FelPro one -- I hope that just means the injectors or something else was serviced at some point and doesn't mean the LIM was already replaced and is not the cause of my coolant leak. Tomorrow I will start w/ the heater fitting and then the distributor and hopefully will get the lower manifold removed, although I'm not 100% sure how much time I'll have.

I'm hoping I won't need the extraction kit. The fitting is 27mm, I found a deep socket for it. Unfortunately it's a 12 point but it'll have to do. That reminds me, I should go out and hit it with some more liquid wrench to soak in overnight.


Small block in an S10 sounds like fun. One of the vehicles I learned to drive on was an S10 with the wheezy 2.8 V6. Fond memories

 

[rationull]

No easy-out kit needed. The fitting came out easily and actually doesn't look very corroded at all. It could be that it's already been replaced at some point.

But, now I'm blocked on tooling again because I can't reach the awkwardly positioned distributor hold-down clamp bolt with a wrench or socket. Job's on hold again for the rest of the day, until I can get somewhere for either a swivel wrench or a stubby u-joint socket or something else.

Was hoping to make more progress today, oh well.

 

[yonyon]

That's what they make distributor wrenches for. Being as you don't have one, how about bending a wrench? It would be easier if you had that propane torch you were considering but a gas grill, charcoal grill, or gas range should be good enough. Don't use the wrench while it is still hot.

 

[Texan4Life]

distributor wrenches can bought at any parts store for like 10 bucks. they come in handy. I would just buy a pair if I was the OP.

 

[rationull]

Hah! I've never heard of a distributor wrench. I was going to pick up a swivel ratcheting end-wrench, or a set of them depending on prices. Looks like the distributor wrench might end up being a cheaper alternative, although less generally useful.