Any reason not to go with a larger battery?

Walmart also has the Ford Fusion size (96R, H5?) for $100, or did until recently. It does NOT show online, might be worth cruising through a B&M store. 2 year warranty red label, worth it if you can get Deka.

As I recall the 96R doesn't have the flange on the bottom, so if your car needs this flange for the battery hold-down, it won't work. It also has no provisions for remote venting (if the original Johnson Controls design).

Far as I can tell is that Ford came out with this battery as a reduced-cost option for the Contour/Mystique, which neither needed a bottom hold down flange nor remote venting.
 
A larger battery has a potential to wear out the alternator faster. Don't make me reply why.
Some years back, I wanted to put a larger battery in my car. A local shop owner dissuaded me from doing so. Here's what I found:

 
From that site above:

"A larger battery will initially have no impact on the alternator, but will pull greater amps during vehicle operation, causing the alternator to wear out sooner."

This makes no sense. Only time a battery will "pull greater amps during vehicle operation" is when it has a shorted cell. And that has nothing to do with the size of the battery.
 
Saw enough in that article I would not believe anything they write even if on a subject I was completely ignorant.


A bigger battery, if still healthy and well depleted, can indeed put a larger load on an alternator, when the voltage regulator is asking for the same voltage as it would on the smaller battery.

So if someone were to drain a larger newish healthy battery to dead, then jumpstart it, then idle/ parked to recharge for 2 hours, the alternator rotor would be fed more current by the voltage regulator and every component involved in charging would get hotter and wear out sooner.

But, if the vehicle were not just idled, but highway driven, the higher alternator rpm would require less field current sent to rotor to maintain the voltage as desired by the regulator, and highe alternator fan speeds, as well as underhood airflow would cool it, and if an internal to alternator voltage regulator, it too would run cooler as it would be passing say 2 amps at 9 volts to make 47.27 mps to maintain 14.1v at 2k rpm instead of 7 amps at 700 rpm to make 47.27 amps.

I've shoehorned the largest TPPL AGM battery I could fit, modified the tray so I could shield it from convective and radiant heating, yet allow heat dissipation when high amperage recharging.
.
These batteries, when well depleted and offered as much as they can drink, at high electrical pressure, 14.4v plus, are the raging alcoholics of amp gobblers, at least until about 85% charged. large Banks of TPPL AGMS in boats are known alternator friers, and often charging systems in boats are TPPL AGm battery killers, as they cant come close to making the minimum desired charge amperage when well depleted to keep the TPPL agm performing properly.

Odyssey wants no less than 40 amps per 100Ah of battery capacity in deep cycle duty. their group 31, 13"long x 6.5" wide x 9.75 tall and 78 lbs, 100AH, 1150 CCA is about the biggest car jar battery size available. Deep cycle one of these and only feed it 20 amps max, even if charged to truly full, will half the cycle life compared to if it were fed 40 amps, all other factors being equal. Never cycle it below 80% SOC and it does not much matter as to max charging amps.

My vehicle calls for a group 34. I've easily fit a group 24, a 27, and not so easily, a group 31. The Northstar 31, when new and well depleted, could easily max out my 120 amp alternator, at both idle( 50 amps), and at 2150 rpm (121.4 amps) for a surprising amount of time.

parked idling maxed out at 50 amps and it would quickly rise well above 180f and temp increase just accellerating from there.
Idling at night, at red lights were the worst in this regard.
Driving 74mph making 121.4 amps, it would sit at 139.5f, for the 15 or 20 minutes my system was able to apply that much load to the alternator.

I've got external voltage regulator temp and current data too, but that would just confuse the topic.

A battery is an electrical filter. The bigger the better, but 'better' is subjective opinion, as is 'needed' or 'acceptable,', or 'desirable'.

Now if the larger , new, well depleted battery can ask for more current than the original cabling is rated to safely pass, then perhaps its inline fuse would blow. That original fuse to battery blowing when the alternator is maxxed out, making everything it can, could be considered a load dump, the maxxed out alternator might spike system into the 30vDC range, perhaps significantly higher for a few microseconds, and that could indeed fry something like an engine computer, and almost certainly the diodes in the alternator, unless field current were cut at the same exact moment as the fuse blowing..

it does make perfect sense to recommend 85IQ joe blow not upsize their battery, as they cant understand the conditions when it could surpass the limitations of the manufacturer's original design

So 'Why!??" is certainly valid, in that case, which for most A to B drivers is highly unlikely to occur.

The Honda 51r battery is about the same price as a group 24, yet less than half the size/ weight.

If the 24 fits, ...,WHY Not?

weight? that extra 24 Lbs gonna tank your MPG, or compromise the fleet MPG average?
Thick vs thin debate...... 0w-20, why?.

The voltage regulation of modern vehicles today can and will vary so widely among makes and models, that so much old school knowledge collated and applied to all, about what is and what should be, no longer applies, as what is most important nowadays, is max profit.

A pallet of group 51r batteries can service how many Hondas,
How about that same weight pallet of group 24's, half as many? Same delivery cost/weight/ size of pallet, half as many batteries.
Millions in wasted profit, silicone baby needs diamonds!!!

Think they care about the battery life, or whether they an 8 year old vehicle is known to be a battery eater, well out of warranty?

That profit has long gone into shiny rocks on the fingers of the executive wives, for whom nothing could ever be good enough anyway, years ago.

its highly unlikely that a larger battery in 99% of vehicles, if it easily fits, will do anything other than extend the time it takes for the battery to degrade to the point it can no longer do its job of starting the engine.
The extra weight might eat the MPGs and brakes negating any savings, or it might not.

If one were the type to think Idling for 2 hours after an unintentional depletion of a new larger healthy battery in august in Phoenix is s great idea, well they are asking a lot from their alternator, and the battery needs 6.5+ hours held at 14+ volts to be returned anywhere near true full charge anyway.

My opinion, stuff the largest battery which easily fits, and if one unintentionally depletes it to the point it needs to be jumped, then dont idle it, drive it, drive it, with minimal DC loads turned on, to the nearest grid powered battery charger at earliest convenience, and give it 12+ hours bringing it to and holding it above 13.6v.

One has to keep in mind many vehicles today have their voltage regulation programmed not about charging the battery to true full, but basically turning off battery charging entirely when it is most beneficial to achieve slightly higher MPG numbers. I know many seem to think the voltage regulation has a thousand sensors and is always seeking for ideal battry life, but Ideal to the manufacturer is fleet MPG averages, and max profit. make most last the warranty and caching!!!!

This basically requires they keep the battery in the 80 to 85% charged range, so that when one takes their foot off the throttle, the VR can ask for 14.5v and the battery can then accept 25+ amps, which it could not if it were 99%+ charged.

Lead acid batteries, ideally, want to be kept cool, and as at high a state of charge as possible always, and even if treated ideally, will still degrade to uselessness, in time.

Hotter and lower SOC averages have far far more effect on lead acid battery longevity, than who made the battery and who put their sticker on it and who sold it.

Anecdotes about battery longevity, without knowing the average state of charge and average temperature, are largely meaningless.

Think about heatsoak. the person who drives 45 minutes 5 times a week, then parks facing into prevailing wind, gets 5.5 years from battery A, but then battery B is 4 days a week, 2 weeks a month, parked facing away from prevailing winds, and lasting less than 2 years.
"Battery A was great, Battery B 'sucks!!!",

but battery A and B could perhaps be identical and the only difference is the average state of charge and the average temperature.
 
I upsize when I can. A battery’s capacity reduces gradually over time and generally starts above it’s rated capacity, according to data shown by members here. So if you get a little bigger, you’re adding more padding. H6 is a nice size battery, and H7 gets into “luxury-sized” if you like the extra capacity.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
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If you want a large battery , try one of these.. :ROFLMAO:
 
2013 Chevy Cruze LS with the 1.8L

Time to replace the battery, my understanding is it comes with a H5 originally and the battery tray fits a size H6 or H7. General consensus from a bit of googling seems to be there is no harm in upgrading to a larger size and the CCA and reserve capacity should go up a bit.

I have to shop around a bit but leaning to one from Sam's Club:

H5 @ Sam's Club

H6 @ Sam's Club

Seems like size H7 is not sold in that price range - at least not seeing it online.
While you are at it - remove and clean the main ground - we had it fault twice on the same car and you will have the power steering dump at the worst of times …
 
I generally select the battery with just enough cca to meet the requirement.

The only way to get more cca in a given size battery, are more plates. More plates in the same size space means they have to be thinner.

Which will last longer / resist vibration? Thicker or thinner plates in the battery?

I'm going with the battery with the thicker plates.
 
Some years back, I wanted to put a larger battery in my car. A local shop owner dissuaded me from doing so. Here's what I found:

Did this person fail Electrical Engineering 101?

In normal use, the current required to recharge a lead acid battery depends on the State of Charge (SOC)
The internal resistance of a lead acid battery decreases based on SOC. This means recharge current WILL go up yes as the internal resistance goes up. However, do to the same work compared to the smaller battery, the SOC will drop less in the higher capacity battery because it gives up a smaller portion of it's charge to do that work.

Now yes, if you let BOTH get to the same SOC level, the higher capacity battery will take longer to recharge, meaning it demands the higher current for a longer time. But the alternator will (or at least should) not provide more than its rated current.

But contrary to the first block about the alternator, putting a higher capacity battery in the car is not going to demand more current from the alternator to do the same work as was being done with the smaller capacity as the work is the same. Of course I'm assuming both batteries are at the same SOC.

If this were the case, how do cars survive with Group 35 Batteries that have a range of capacities:


Electrical Specifications:
12Volts
310 - 640Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)
80 - 110Reserve Capacity Minutes

A larger capacity battery will provide more buffer for the load a car has. If it's allowed to fully discharge, yes, it will put a higher load on the alternator for a longer time period to recharge it. But the alternator will not provide more than it's rated to provide.
 
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Did this person fail Electrical Engineering 101?

In normal use, the current required to recharge a lead acid battery depends on the State of Charge (SOC)
The internal resistance of a lead acid battery decreases based on SOC. This means recharge current WILL go up yes as the internal resistance goes up. However, do to the same work compared to the smaller battery, the SOC will drop less in the higher capacity battery because it gives up a smaller portion of it's charge to do that work.

Now yes, if you let BOTH get to the same SOC level, the higher capacity battery will take longer to recharge, meaning it demands the higher current for a longer time. But the alternator will (or at least should) not provide more than its rated current.

But contrary to the first block about the alternator, putting a higher capacity battery in the car is not going to demand more current from the alternator to do the same work as was being done with the smaller capacity as the work is the same. Of course I'm assuming both batteries are at the same SOC.

If this were the case, how do cars survive with Group 35 Batteries that have a range of capacities:


Electrical Specifications:
12Volts
310 - 640Cold Cranking Amps (CCA)
80 - 110Reserve Capacity Minutes

A larger capacity battery will provide more buffer for the load a car has. If it's allowed to fully discharge, yes, it will put a higher load on the alternator for a longer time period to recharge it. But the alternator will not provide more than it's rated to provide.
Hey, I don't know squat about electricity, batteries, alternators, or most of what you guys are talking about. My knowledge ends at the wall switch and the fuse box door.

Just to be clear, I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with the article. I just posted what I found, which, at the time, was the only thing I found on the subject. I figured the folks involved in this discussion would make more of it than I.
 
Hey, I don't know squat about electricity, batteries, alternators, or most of what you guys are talking about. My knowledge ends at the wall switch and the fuse box door.

Just to be clear, I didn't say I agreed or disagreed with the article. I just posted what I found, which, at the time, was the only thing I found on the subject. I figured the folks involved in this discussion would make more of it than I.
Yes, it’s not personal. At least not with me.

Perhaps I was not clear, he writer at the website doesn’t seem to know much.

A battery is like a tank of electricity. It holds only so much. A larger capacity tank lasts longer for the same usage.

An alternator is a pump that refills the tank. It has a limit on how much it can add. We call that a limit of current.

Current is like a volume of electricity. Think of it like gallons per minute of water for this analogy.

Voltage is like the pressure to continue the water analogy, or like PSI.

Power is the produce of Volts x Amps and is measured in Watts.

So if I have a 60w load such as a headlight. I need 5a of current at 12v.

Batteries have a reserve capacity. That indicates how many minutes our battery can deliver 25amps and maintain a voltage above 10.5 volts at 80 degrees F.

If a battery has an RC of 60, theoretically, our battery can power that draw for 5 hours assuming it’s the only draw and the temperature is 80.

RC is analogous to the volume of the bucket. IE the bucket has 1500 gallons and can deliver 25 gallons/minute for 60 minutes.

If this helps, great. If not, perhaps it can help others.
 
Batteries have a reserve capacity. That indicates how many minutes our battery can deliver 25amps and maintain a voltage above 10.5 volts at 80 degrees F.

If a battery has an RC of 60, theoretically, our battery can power that draw for 5 hours assuming it’s the only draw and the temperature is 80.

Did you mean 1 hour?
 
Did you mean 1 hour?
Nope, a reserve capacity of 60 minutes is a draw of 25A for 60 minutes IIRC, so the 5A load can (theoretically) be maintained for 5 hours.
The load I was talking about was the 5a load of the 60w headlamp previously mentioned.
 
Nope, a reserve capacity of 60 minutes is a draw of 25A for 60 minutes IIRC, so the 5A load can (theoretically) be maintained for 5 hours.
The load I was talking about was the 5a load of the 60w headlamp previously mentioned.

Oh, I thought you were talking about a 25A load.

Due to the Peukert effect, a lead-acid battery with a 60RC should power a 5 amp load for something longer than 5 hours. (The amp-hour capacity of a lead-acid battery decreases as the load increases, and vice-versa. Most batteries that have an amp-hour rating are specified for a draw over 10 or 20 hours, not 1 hour).
 
Oh, I thought you were talking about a 25A load.

Due to the Peukert effect, a lead-acid battery with a 60RC should power a 5 amp load for something longer than 5 hours. (The amp-hour capacity of a lead-acid battery decreases as the load increases, and vice-versa. Most batteries that have an amp-hour rating are specified for a draw over 10 or 20 hours, not 1 hour).
You are probably right.
I realize it's not linear, but just wanted to keep the example simple.
I was also still speaking of RC, not amp hours, so I didn't really get into the amp hour rating of the battery.
I hope I was close enough for the discussion here.
 
I realize it's not linear, but just wanted to keep the example simple.
I was also still speaking of RC, not amp hours, so I didn't really get into the amp hour rating of the battery.

Speaking of RC, it doesn't seem as important now as it used to be. A lot of batteries no longer put the RC rating on the label.

I guess it was more important in the days of unreliable alternators and generators and their associated belts. I am making an assumption that these things were less reliable 30 or more years ago.
 
Speaking of RC, it doesn't seem as important now as it used to be. A lot of batteries no longer put the RC rating on the label.

I guess it was more important in the days of unreliable alternators and generators and their associated belts. I am making an assumption that these things were less reliable 30 or more years ago.
No, but RC does help explain why it takes only a few hours of sitting with various draws on before the car will not start.
Seldom does one have a single headlight on, so figure it's probably close to 10-12A draw for both headlights and all the others, assuming traditional filament bulbs.

So you might have a couple of hours on a warm day, and even less on a cold day where the battery has a harder time performing the chemical reaction that produces the needed current.

Of course, as a battery ages, that RC drops, so the fall off is even faster.

Which reminds me, I probably should charge then test the batteries in our RAV4 and Mazda3 as they are 6 and 5 years old respectively.

Edited to add, I have upsized the Group 35 battery in the Mazda to a 24F that fits in the battery box. No ill effects noted in the past 5 years.
 
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