ANy issues using a bypass filter

[UkDiesel]

Hi Guys, Newbie here from the Uk.
Firstly let me say Happy New Year to you all and this forum looks pretty good and seems informative.

My question is are there any drawbacks to using a preferrably TP bypass filter.

I've been looking into this for a few days and seem to find conflicting reports.
Given that some artcles say an OEM full flow filter is 40 microns and some say 20 microns and that it's the sub 10 micron particles that do the damage, I thought a bypass would be a good idea, but, I have also read that the 1 micron filters will filter the additives out of the oil.

I want to run the filter(s) on a Mercedes 1998 E300TD and maybe a 2004 Skoda Vrs 130PD (Same engine as all VAG 130PD).

Will I be doing harm or good by fitting a bypass filter?

There isn't a following for bypass filters in the Uk so I can't find info there other than from from the VERY few suppliers/manufacturers.

I've done a search but couldn't find a thread covering what I want.

Thanks

 

[Gary Allan]

finer is better. Only pluses to the practice. You won't filter additives ..well, let me restate that. Additives are typically dissolved solids. There are/maybe some that aren't dissolved until they're heated to a certain temp. We've seen them in virgin oil microscopic images. Even if they're trapped ..they will go into solution as they would normally ..when they get heated up.

The plus side:

Perpetual sump. If you're a 3k (miles) or 3 month type...you're in hog heaven. 4 quarts of oil and 4 rolls of tp a year. finest and cheapest media available. Very hard to beat on that basis. The liability is length of service.

Minus side: If you do over a certain number of miles, you could be changing tp more often then you would be servicing the vehicle anyway. You then have to base your value on the finer filtration alone and not the cost savings in resources and $$ (insert pound symbol). The current recommended change interval is 3,000 miles or 3 months. You may be able to go longer if you still find it getting hot/warm. So, your mileage may vary depending on how much crud your engine produces.

It can make it difficult to use synthetics. You'll be swapping out your first roll of tp while your oil is still good. Not all that bad ..but your ROI stretches out further. Again, you're basing value on the finer filtration and not the cost savings.

I don't know if the UK uses the same size roll of tp as we do in the states. I know France does not. Just so you know. Our Stateside TP is about 4.5" square. 4.5" tall and about 4.5" in diameter. (114.3mmX114.3mm)

..and Happy New Year!

 

[UkDiesel]

Thanks for the reply. I have just measured a new roll and it is 120mm dia x 110mm wide, so slightly different.
I am thinking of using a UK manufacturer simply so spare media is available readily and the cost is about the same.

I already run the MB on synthetic and will continue to do so as I want the better lubrication benefit it gives and I'm not too bothered about the cost of oil replenishment as in the overall scheme of running the car it's not an issue. Well not when diesel is equivelant to $6.67 per US gallon.

My next question is where to take the oil feed from.
I can't see the oil pressure sender as it's buried under the inlet manifold so I wondered about using the turbo feed pipe. This does concern me a bit as I don't want to starve the turbo of oi. Is this a good or a bad idea?

For the return I could either go into the cam cover or down to the sump via a union through the drain hole.

I like the sump return as I don't really want to take the engine from standard.

I will need to mount the bypass filter above the turbo as it's the only space large enough in the engine bay.

Has anyone done a Mercedes with OM606 engine, if so how did you do it?

The Skoda is very tight in the engine bay so I need to find a slim filter. For this installation I was thinking of using an adaptor off the standard oil filter. Do these work and where can I get one?

Also has anyone used a Trasko type filter, if so what do you think of it?

Regards

 

[Shaman]

I'm not too familiar with the W210 turbo engine, but I am sure that one of the benz websites would have some ideas about mounting.

 

[Gary Allan]

I would think that if you tapped off the turbo line close to the engine ..as in where the turbo line is tapped in, you would be okay. You wouldn't want to tap in too far out on the skinny line as it will have a pressure drop over the span. If tapped in at the source, both should see system pressure and flow should not be altered, or so I reason. Just make sure whatever system you go with has a restrictor in the canister.

Your tp is close enough to use in a US made unit. You merely unroll enough to allow it to fit ..which is what has to be done here too. 4mm in length can just be my "rubber ruler" effect. At least we wipe in the same general dimensional universe. Keep it tidy

 

[LeRoy Murray]

Hi, I'm a new user just checking out the site, and came across your post. If you haven't already, check out www.frantzfilters.com The Frantz bypass filter. You can use toilet paper, or they sell rolls specific to fit their filters if your local tp is marginal. They have adapters that allow you to take oil from the spin on filter, and the installation kit comes with a self threading fitting for the side of the (steel o sheet metal) oil pan. If you have an alloy pan there are other ways to go. There is also a fitting that comes with the Trans oil filter that theoretically can be used on an oil cooler line, I think it will work and am going to try it on my XJ6 but haven't gotten to it yet. Also check out the Amsoil bypass filter, they have an adapter that allows the oil to be taken and returned via the spin on filter that should work with any system, but may only work with their bypass/full flow combo, don't know for sure...
Lee Murray

 

[simple_gifts]

Re: Skoda, if still under warrranty I would not install a bypass.

 

[johnd]

I'll give you one issue. Up until this week I was using an antique Frantz, the kind with the flat gasket that isn't made anymore. I had some gaskets made of Vitrine and installed one. On the way to work Wednesday morning, it started to leak and I caught it just as the car ran completely out of oil. Fortunately this happened in a parking lot and there was no problems other than an inconvenience and the loss of a gallon of oil. I'm sure glad I wasn't in the center lane of the freeway going 80 mph when it happened. I'm not blaming anyone for myself for this one but I can see why Frantz went to a different design. I'm looking for one of those now.

 

[mjo]

If you ever would like to test the bypass filter's capability without installing it on your car you can assemble an easy gravity drain system. Just grab two fittings and some hose, tap into a paint can or some other container. Situate the can so that it is higher than the filter, pour oil into the can and a few hours later observe how much cleaner the oil looks.

 

[sifan]

I would suggest to install the bypass filter in a location such that oil in it will not drain back to the sump when engine stops. It is bad enough that the engine is starved for oil during cold startup. Diverting needed oil to refill the bypass filter during this critical time only makes the situation worse especially in the winter time. I could always hear sound of oil gushing in and hitting the top of the Frantz metal canister during engine startup. My solution is to install a pre-oiler, which will not only pre-fill the bypass filter, but also pre-lube the engine at the same time. A good pre-oiler kit will even come with a timer that lube the turbo after engine shutdown.

http://www.pre-luber.com/preluberkits.htm

 

[96 Cherokee]

Quote:

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I would suggest to install the bypass filter in a location such that oil in it will not drain back to the sump when engine stops. It is bad enough that the engine is starved for oil during cold startup. Diverting needed oil to refill the bypass filter during this critical time only makes the situation worse especially in the winter time. I could always hear sound of oil gushing in and hitting the top of the Frantz metal canister during engine startup. My solution is to install a pre-oiler, which will not only pre-fill the bypass filter, but also pre-lube the engine at the same time. A good pre-oiler kit will even come with a timer that lube the turbo after engine shutdown.

http://www.pre-luber.com/preluberkits.htm

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Are all pre-oilers around $400.00 on up? Holy cow!!!

 

[sifan]

These are my findings after a 30k OCI with my Frantz oil bypass filter with TP replacement every 3-4k miles with 1 qt of M1 5w30 makeup oil. Then end result was very disappointing due to my driving habit and installation setup.

1) Do not return oil from the bypss filter to the oil filler cap if your car is equipped with PCV. It was a nightmare to clean TB/IAC every 1000 miles toward the end of OCI. I had to reroute the return hose to the oil pan thru the oil drain plug.

2) The bypass filtering is less effective in cleaning oil if your daily trip is short and slow like in the congested city traffic. When engine RPM is low, not much oil actually passes thru the bypass filter. But, it probably removes water in the oil. If this is the case, use the bypass filter as an extra insurance with regular OCI. I would not recommend perpetual OCI in any case. During the 30k OCI I drove my car like an old grandma by keeping RPM below 2k and avoiding high speed to reduce engine wear and get high MPG while hoping the bypass filter would alleviate the carbon deposit problem. I was wrong. Now I drive my car normally and use highway if it is not congested. My MPG drops a little, but the oil stays a lot cleaner.

3) Keep the hoses as short as possible. I placed the oil temp and ATF temp senders at the return lines of my Frantz bypass filters. In freezing temp it takes really long time for the oil to register 120F despite the coolant temp has seen 191F for a while (I use engine block heater and oil/ATF pan heater pads in the winter). It takes the engine long time to push the oil thru the roll of jelly and warm it up, long hoses only make thing worse. In winter short and slow trips make bypass filter even less effective.

4) As I mentioned earlier, install the bypass filter such that the oil won't drain back to the engine to minimize cold engine startup wear.

5) Use your judgment on long OCI when using a bypass filter. I probably did more harm to my engine during the 30k OCI despite the use of a bypass filter. IMO, it is best to use it as a supplement to safeguard your regular OCI and extend it a little more. The Frantz oil bypass filter and pre-luber increase the oil capacity from 4 qt to 6 qt. I put 5 qt of M1 5w30 and 1 qt of MMO during my last oil change. This is the first time I use MMO in engine oil which acts as a thinner and solvent. It probably does a great job in dissolving carbon and let bypass filter filter it out because the oil is still very clean after 6k miles. I think my change in driving habit also helps. Additionally this shows a TP can last more than 3-4k miles on a 4 banger. I will push the OCI further until the oil starts to turn dark. It also makes me wonder the 30k OCI was a waste of materials (like TPs) and time/effort in doing partial oil change all along. Maybe I will use M1 5w30 EP next oil change and see what the OCI limit would be.

 

[Steve S]

I would take all the money and time to buy and install the bypass filters and take your honey out for an evening.Do an extra oil change each year.You will be much happier.

 

[96 Cherokee]

Quote:

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These are my findings after a 30k OCI with my Frantz oil bypass filter with TP replacement every 3-4k miles with 1 qt of M1 5w30 makeup oil. Then end result was very disappointing due to my driving habit and installation setup.

1) Do not return oil from the bypss filter to the oil filler cap if your car is equipped with PCV. It was a nightmare to clean TB/IAC every 1000 miles toward the end of OCI. I had to reroute the return hose to the oil pan thru the oil drain plug.

2) The bypass filtering is less effective in cleaning oil if your daily trip is short and slow like in the congested city traffic. When engine RPM is low, not much oil actually passes thru the bypass filter. But, it probably removes water in the oil. If this is the case, use the bypass filter as an extra insurance with regular OCI. I would not recommend perpetual OCI in any case. During the 30k OCI I drove my car like an old grandma by keeping RPM below 2k and avoiding high speed to reduce engine wear and get high MPG while hoping the bypass filter would alleviate the carbon deposit problem. I was wrong. Now I drive my car normally and use highway if it is not congested. My MPG drops a little, but the oil stays a lot cleaner.

3) Keep the hoses as short as possible. I placed the oil temp and ATF temp senders at the return lines of my Frantz bypass filters. In freezing temp it takes really long time for the oil to register 120F despite the coolant temp has seen 191F for a while (I use engine block heater and oil/ATF pan heater pads in the winter). It takes the engine long time to push the oil thru the roll of jelly and warm it up, long hoses only make thing worse. In winter short and slow trips make bypass filter even less effective.

4) As I mentioned earlier, install the bypass filter such that the oil won't drain back to the engine to minimize cold engine startup wear.

5) Use your judgment on long OCI when using a bypass filter. I probably did more harm to my engine during the 30k OCI despite the use of a bypass filter. IMO, it is best to use it as a supplement to safeguard your regular OCI and extend it a little more. The Frantz oil bypass filter and pre-luber increase the oil capacity from 4 qt to 6 qt. I put 5 qt of M1 5w30 and 1 qt of MMO during my last oil change. This is the first time I use MMO in engine oil which acts as a thinner and solvent. It probably does a great job in dissolving carbon and let bypass filter filter it out because the oil is still very clean after 6k miles. I think my change in driving habit also helps. Additionally this shows a TP can last more than 3-4k miles on a 4 banger. I will push the OCI further until the oil starts to turn dark. It also makes me wonder the 30k OCI was a waste of materials (like TPs) and time/effort in doing partial oil change all along. Maybe I will use M1 5w30 EP next oil change and see what the OCI limit would be.

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I have the Motor Guard TP filter on my Jeep 4.0 and run the filtered oil into the valve cover through the oil filler cap. What is this TB/IAC that you are cleaning? I have not cleaned anything on mine after several thousand miles, and I assume my engine has PCV.(someone correct me if it does not) Also, even at idle and 22 pounds of oil pressure on the guage, the flow through the bypass filter is more than I expected. Due to my style of driving, which is stop and go all day long on a rural mail route, I am changing TP and adding a quart of Amosoil 10W-30/SAE 30 ACD every 2000 miles. Just installed the Motor Guard last fall because I was not 100% happy with the UOA results using the Amsoil dual bypass system. So far, I am happy with the TP filter, but a UOA at 10 to 12 thousand mail route miles will tell me if it is a good thing or not. Engine has 257,000 miles(15,000+ hours) on it so it has served well. Wish I had started using bypass on it before it had 200,000 miles.

 

[sifan]

Toward the end of 30k OCI the oil was so full of carbon that it passed thru the PCV and foul the Throttle Body and Intake Air Control valve. I had to use Sea Foam Deep Creep to clean them every 1k miles and watched the white smoke coming out of the tailpipe. Despite of the TP change every 3-4k miles with 1 qt makeup oil, the oil usually turned dark after 1k miles of driving. I should have used my common sense to dump the oil then.

 

[sifan]

Yeah, the oil volume passes thru the TP at idle seems a lot (I observed that, too), but the oil will need to pass thru the TP several times to get really clean. Theoretically oil should pass thru the filtering medium at a slow rate to stay in it longer to get clean.

 

[96 Cherokee]

Quote:

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Toward the end of 30k OCI the oil was so full of carbon that it passed thru the PCV and foul the Throttle Body and Intake Air Control valve. I had to use Sea Foam Deep Creep to clean them every 1k miles and watched the white smoke coming out of the tailpipe. Despite of the TP change every 3-4k miles with 1 qt makeup oil, the oil usually turned dark after 1k miles of driving. I should have used my common sense to dump the oil then.

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I don't understand why the TP did not filter the carbon out of the oil. Is carbon sub-micronic? The whole point of using TP for filter media is to keep the oil clean, as in cleaner than any other media. I have a lot to learn about oil fitering, but I thought I had a handle on the basics. Maybe not......

 

[sifan]

I believe the oil additives was so depleted in my oil, the new additives in one qt of makeup oil just did not last long. TP is a good filtering medium, but you also need oil additives which is one of the reasons why you need to change the TP once a while.

Well, actually replenish oil additives and changing TP are two different issues. If your TP is till good, why replace it? Just drain 1 or more qt of oil and add equivalent amount of makeup oil for a partial oil change. Replace the TP when you see fit. If you have a Fumoto drain valve and a measuring cup, it makes the task a lot easier. People tend to tie these two issues in one because they don't see it this way.