Any ideas what causes this type of tire wear?

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Street_Lethal

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Thanks for all the input. I had an early 90's Honda Prelude that had a negative camber issue due to sag because of it's age and it would destroy the inside edges of tires within 13,000 miles. It had a load of miles on it, 256,000, and I decided to sell it. I didn't want to put any more money into it. Also wouldn't negative camber create a scenario where the tread height would steadily increase as you measure outward from the inside edge to the outer edge of the tire? What's odd about this wear is as I mentioned I was told everything is in spec and 3/4 of the tread surface is worn evenly except for the last tread channel. I still have the tires and I remeasured the depth and the it's a hair under 4/32 to be exact on that outside channel. I'll keep these new tires at the rated psi on the door and see what's cooking after about 5000 miles. I have a tread gauge. All I know is the CS5s rode like garbage since day one, I never liked them.
 
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Street_Lethal

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I'm checking the alignment print out Hyundai gave me: From left actual 0.00 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) Front right actual -0.3 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) Front Cross camber actual 0.3 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) Rear left actual -0.5 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0) Rear right actual -0.6 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0) Read cross camber actual 0.1 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)
 
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Street_Lethal

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Oh yeah I forgot. Front Left Toe actual 0.00 (specified range -0.10 / 0.10) Front right Toe actual 0.03 (specified range -0.10 / 0.10)
 
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Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Over inflated. Do the chalk test next time.
Be interested to hear what Capriracer says about the chalk test.
I am not a fan of *The Chalk Test*. Here's why: This is the same tire loaded and inflated to different levels. Notice how evenly the pressure distribution is across the width of the tire. What's really different is the length of the footprint. This tire should give pretty much the same result in *The Chalk Test* regardless of the load or inflation pressure. That's why I am not a fan.
This would be the next coolest tool I would like to have besides a set of wheel weight scales. Someone needs to make an affordable tool that could measure contact pressures! I would buy one if it was under $1000. The next best thing would be a real-time infrared camera video, which ain't cheap either. This video is too cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvuBe6b2iVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6MwHhWrhqQ
 
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Originally Posted By: Street_Lethal
I'm checking the alignment print out Hyundai gave me: From left actual 0.00 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) ***Front right actual -0.3 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5)*** Front Cross camber actual 0.3 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) ***Rear left actual -0.5 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)*** ***Rear right actual -0.6 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)*** Read cross camber actual 0.1 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)
O.K. So, it looks like you have worn approximately -0.3 degree on rt. front, or it was that way from the factory. The rear lf. is -0.5, rear rt. is -0.6 degree negative, that's enough for your tire wear pattern, case closed. Your wear pattern has most likely come for the tires in the rear rotation position.
 
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Originally Posted By: Traction
This would be the next coolest tool I would like to have besides a set of wheel weight scales. Someone needs to make an affordable tool that could measure contact pressures!
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/prescale/prescale_sheettype/ Saw a bloke who used pressure sensitive paper to make a head gasket that measured the contact pressure on a warped block/head, then scraped the high spots until it was close to even.
 
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Originally Posted By: KneeGrinder
Originally Posted By: Street_Lethal
I'm checking the alignment print out Hyundai gave me: From left actual 0.00 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) ***Front right actual -0.3 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5)*** Front Cross camber actual 0.3 (specified range -0.5 / 0.5) ***Rear left actual -0.5 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)*** ***Rear right actual -0.6 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)*** Read cross camber actual 0.1 (specified range -1.0 / 0.0)
O.K. So, it looks like you have worn approximately -0.3 degree on rt. front, or it was that way from the factory. The rear lf. is -0.5, rear rt. is -0.6 degree negative, that's enough for your tire wear pattern, case closed. Your wear pattern has most likely come for the tires in the rear rotation position.
Huh? I run -3.0 and -2.2 and see perfectly even wear.
 
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I wouldn't think much about that moderate amount of uneven wear. Our Impreza has over 1 degree of negative rear camber stock and leads to some excessive inside wear. Frequent rotation seems to limit it to a very moderate amount of uneven wear (I upped the frequency of rotation after the factory tires wear.) Interestingly, I have CS5s currently on the Impreza and had them on a Buick. Super happy with the tire- wearing very reasonably and handles all conditions very well. I keep close track of fuel mileage and have suspicion I've given up a hair of mileage as compared to previous tires. (sorry for the sidebar but since OP mentioned CS5s generally)
 
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The biggest problem I see with any tire with uneven wear is, that it is WASTED energy. Any abnormal tire wear is generating heat, eating up expensive rubber, fuel, and horsepower. And handling too. It's like trying to push a tire sideways down the road.
 
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Originally Posted By: Traction
The biggest problem I see with any tire with uneven wear is, that it is WASTED energy. Any abnormal tire wear is generating heat, eating up expensive rubber, fuel, and horsepower. And handling too. It's like trying to push a tire sideways down the road.
Not handling. Cars that handle well typically chew through tires as a function of their alignment.
 
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: Traction
The biggest problem I see with any tire with uneven wear is, that it is WASTED energy. Any abnormal tire wear is generating heat, eating up expensive rubber, fuel, and horsepower. And handling too. It's like trying to push a tire sideways down the road.
Not handling. Cars that handle well typically chew through tires as a function of their alignment.
True. I meant rolling down the road like it's on rails, which is a good daily driver set-up.
 
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Originally Posted By: Traction
The biggest problem I see with any tire with uneven wear is, that it is WASTED energy. Any abnormal tire wear is generating heat, eating up expensive rubber, fuel, and horsepower. And handling too. It's like trying to push a tire sideways down the road.
If the toe is off, you are actually dragging the tire sideways down the road. If the toe is off 1/8", itmeans dragging the tire 28 feet sideways every mile.
 
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Generally speaking, radial tires are much more tolerant of negative camber than toe, as far as irregular wear is concerned. Combine some negative camber with a little toe-out and the inside shoulders will be chewed up in a hurry. The one detail that hasn't been pointed out with this tire is the fact that there is more rubber surrounding the outer circumferential groove(right side in the photo) than there is on the inside of this asymmetric tread pattern. Notice how much narrower the groove is that measures 4/32nds. Additionally, the tread blocks are larger on the outside shoulder and outside intermediate tread rows than they are on the inside. There are 56 tread blocks on the outside and 72 on the inside. It's designed this way to provide better handling without completely sacrificing winter and wet qualities. The CS5 H, V, and W speed ratings of the "CS5 Ultra Touring" are all like this where the T rated "CS5 Grand Touring" has equal rubber distribution from outside to inside. For the T rated, ultimate handling was traded for slightly more winter and wear mileage.
 

Street_Lethal

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A local shop said the wear looks normal for the CS5. They mentioned exactly what you did. The CS5 has what they call a "duro edge" on the outside part of the tire and they've seen many CS5's wear exactly the same way because of this. They sell this tire all of the time. They said to not even worry about it. I bought these tires from another local shop but they changed locations and I didn't feel like driving out there. I found an old thread here where some guy mentioned the same wear pattern on his CS5.
Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
Generally speaking, radial tires are much more tolerant of negative camber than toe, as far as irregular wear is concerned. Combine some negative camber with a little toe-out and the inside shoulders will be chewed up in a hurry. The one detail that hasn't been pointed out with this tire is the fact that there is more rubber surrounding the outer circumferential groove(right side in the photo) than there is on the inside of this asymmetric tread pattern. Notice how much narrower the groove is that measures 4/32nds. Additionally, the tread blocks are larger on the outside shoulder and outside intermediate tread rows than they are on the inside. There are 56 tread blocks on the outside and 72 on the inside. It's designed this way to provide better handling without completely sacrificing winter and wet qualities. The CS5 H, V, and W speed ratings of the "CS5 Ultra Touring" are all like this where the T rated "CS5 Grand Touring" has equal rubber distribution from outside to inside. For the T rated, ultimate handling was traded for slightly more winter and wear mileage.
 
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Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
You're taking turns too slow. cool
This. Car has negative camber - that will eat inner shoulders when driving in a straight line. Get some nice country roads without speed cameras to even this out. cool Also, maybe a tiny little bit overinflated. But that probably saved more money over the life of the tyre in fuel than the uneven wear cost. All in all, I'd even go so far as to say this tyre did not wear that bad at all. I mean, you got 46000km out of the tyres on a FWD car and the tread pattern still looks somewaht reasonable, so what?
 
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Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Over inflated. Do the chalk test next time.
Be interested to hear what Capriracer says about the chalk test.
I am not a fan of *The Chalk Test*. Here's why: This is the same tire loaded and inflated to different levels. Notice how evenly the pressure distribution is across the width of the tire. What's really different is the length of the footprint. This tire should give pretty much the same result in *The Chalk Test* regardless of the load or inflation pressure. That's why I am not a fan.
The basic Chalk Test, as generally described on the nyet, seems to be about making even contact across the width of the tyre. Here's a slight variant/extension that also uses chalk to monitor and "tune" tyre roll onto the sidewall under side loading. Havn't tried it but might get around to it someday. I'd be interested in your cvmments http://tw.forumosa.com/t/new-tires-experience-michelin-pp2/36528/4
 
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Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
Over inflated. Do the chalk test next time.
Be interested to hear what Capriracer says about the chalk test.
I am not a fan of *The Chalk Test*. Here's why: This is the same tire loaded and inflated to different levels. Notice how evenly the pressure distribution is across the width of the tire. What's really different is the length of the footprint. This tire should give pretty much the same result in *The Chalk Test* regardless of the load or inflation pressure. That's why I am not a fan.
The basic Chalk Test, as generally described on the nyet, seems to be about making even contact across the width of the tyre. Here's a slight variant/extension that also uses chalk to monitor and "tune" tyre roll onto the sidewall under side loading. Havn't tried it but might get around to it someday. I'd be interested in your cvmments http://tw.forumosa.com/t/new-tires-experience-michelin-pp2/36528/4
As you can see from the image I referenced, that particular tire has a fairly even contact across the width of the tread. Plus when I was designing tires, we could alter the footprint to get different pressure patterns. Needless to say, we usually tried to get an even pressure distribution - BUT - that was not always the case - and certainly not in this case: Well, I can't seem to paste the image, but go to the Wikipedia article on Contact Patch to see that image. It isn't very good and will likely give a bad result.
 
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