Any down side to using an oversized filter besides clearance issues??

[HondaRD]

Right now it seems the oversized filter topic is of high interest, and I can understand why. The more I read, the more I am compelled to use a larger filter for my Acura. But, like many other people who are also intersted in doing the same at their next oil change I wonder if anyone has had a negative experience with using a filter larger than oem? If clearance is not an issue, then how far of a difference must the bypass specs be to be of concern. I want to try using a larger filter but am worried about causing harm to a $5,000 engine. Since it is my only car, I would like to hear what others have to say with this regard. Honda people, please don't hesitate to add your input. Do racecar teams (like the redline acura team) in the GT Touring class use a larger filters in their TypeR or NSX?

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

HondaRD, my personal recommendation is to use the standard Honda filter made for your engine. With that filter you can be assured you are getting the right oil flow, plus decent filtering capabilities. I know you can find an aftermarket filter that filters down to 1 micron, with 99% efficiency, increases oil capacity, blah, blah, blah, but who really knows what level of flow you are getting in everyday situations ?. It's my belief that proper oil flow is more important that overall filtering capabilities and size of filter (to a certain degree of course). Taking a hard corner at 7000, 8000, or 9000 rpms (not sure what engine you are running) really needs the proper level of oil flow.

I've got one of the real tiny Honda filters on my k20 engine (thing fits in the palm of your hand), even that filter is rated for up to 20,000 miles under normal conditions (10,000 miles severe conditions). So I think we are safe using any of the Honda filters, one less thing to worry about IMO. Why mess with something that works, you could be taking a chance and ending up with something that might work less effectively -increasing engine wear.

Comparing daily driven passenger cars to high strung race engines isn't a fair comparison. Race engines have a very short life span between re-builds, and they have very different lubrication and cooling requirements. The oil systems used by Honda race teams can be worked over pretty heavily, with more than a few custom parts. Dry sump systems for the most part, totally different from your street driven Honda.

[ February 09, 2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Idrinkmotoroil ]

 

[JPowers]

Honda is a greedy corporation, just like any other. Don't blindly put your faith in them! Although Honda/Fram is perfectly good for the masses, I have become anti-Fram after seeing the insides of these filters. They are mass-produced cut rate garbage like McDonald's hamburgers. Go to K-Mart, Wallyworld, etc. and you see a huge wall of orange boxes! Wow! If they're this popular, they must be the best! Not so, it's all about marketing.

As for the original question, I'm trying to figure that out myself: If you buy a larger filter with better flow, but a stronger bypass spring, is that better than a regular sized filter with a weaker bypass spring? Very good question!

 

[HondaRD]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil:
Race engines have a very short life span between re-builds, and they have very different lubrication and cooling requirements. The oil systems used by Honda race teams can be worked over pretty heavily, with more than a few custom parts. Dry sump systems for the most part, totally different from your street driven Honda.

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Yeah I agree with you on that. But the race cars I was refering to were the gt touring class with cars that still not very modified like the redline's typeR with the 1.8 litre vtec, but I see your point.

 

[Ken4]

Why dont you do oil analysis with the small filter and also the big filter. This may be the only way you can satisfy yourself that it's not doing any harm to your engine. My hunch is that it will not make any difference. Most people here seem to think that good air filtration is more crucial than good oil filtration.

 

[joee12]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil:
HondaRD, my personal recommendation is to use the standard Honda filter made for your engine. With that filter you can be assured you are getting the right oil flow, plus decent filtering capabilities. I know you can find an aftermarket filter that filters down to 1 micron, with 99% efficiency, increases oil capacity, blah, blah, blah, but who really knows what level of flow you are getting in everyday situations ?. It's my belief that proper oil flow is more important that overall filtering capabilities and size of filter (to a certain degree of course). Taking a hard corner at 7000, 8000, or 9000 rpms (not sure what engine you are running) really needs the proper level of oil flow.

I've got one of the real tiny Honda filters on my k20 engine (thing fits in the palm of your hand), even that filter is rated for up to 20,000 miles under normal conditions (10,000 miles severe conditions). So I think we are safe using any of the Honda filters, one less thing to worry about IMO. Why mess with something that works, you could be taking a chance and ending up with something that might work less effectively -increasing engine wear.

Comparing daily driven passenger cars to high strung race engines isn't a fair comparison. Race engines have a very short life span between re-builds, and they have very different lubrication and cooling requirements. The oil systems used by Honda race teams can be worked over pretty heavily, with more than a few custom parts. Dry sump systems for the most part, totally different from your street driven Honda.

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That is why if you want to run a Honda OEM ,ask for the "made in the USA" Filtech filter, or go online and order the HAMP filter for just a few bucks more. I personally have been running a K&N HP 1004 on my 96 Integra. I still see no reason to run the larger filter. -Joe

 

[cryptokid]

u you can haver have to big of a filter.
my little engine now has a oil filter thats like 7 inches long and 3.75 inches wide, a monster filter which gobbles up over a quart of oil all by its self.
myengine is 1.7 liters big, yet the filter its self is designed for monster diesel tractors and such. i use it because its the biggest one i can find that fits the filter mount.

the spec oil filter is 3.25x4 inches.

 

[Ken2]

Is that big filter equiped with the correct antidrainback valve? The correct bypass valve setting (if it has a bypass valve at all)? The correct degree of filtration? The correct flow rate?

If you don't know the answer to all these questions (and they're nearly impossible to find out), you don't know if you're filtering better or worse than the OEM filter.


Ken

 

[joee12]

HondaRD, I just ordered some HAMP(Honda After Market Parts) oil filters. Smeltjr provided me with a source for these filters. The sales rep that sold me the filters said that these are a little longer than the stock Honda filter. I will measure the HAMP filter, and compare with the stock filter and get back with you. -Joe

 

[HondaRD]

Thanks joee12. I should look into HAMP filters. I've heard good things about those too.

 

[cryptokid]

ken2, yes on all of the above questions.

 

[unDummy]

There is no correct antidrainback valve. It either works(is there), or it doesn't work(=not there).

Concerning the bypass pressure specs, visit the oil filter company's website or send them an email. Most are willing to give the info. Wixfilters data is available online which allows you to compare the standard and oversized Wix filter you plan on using.

Also, bypass isn't an on/off switch. Most filters will leak(bypass) at idle and the amount of oil that bypasses just increases constantly as rpm increases. The cheaper the filter, the more the leakage because of the quality of the valve.

I've run 10psi(Ford filter), 20psi(VW filter) and no bypass(stock) in the same engine with no ill effects. If anything, the lowest bypass PSI had the quietest sounding engine, especially when cold or revved.
From experience with various engines, I'd prefer higher PSI partially filtered oil to prevent wear VS. lower PSI fully filtered oil. Hell, there was a time that engines didn't even come with filters and oil back then was pretty crude compared with the quality of oil today.

Concerning media and surface area, all you have to do is compare the 'same brand' required filter with the 'same brand' oversized that you are planning to use.

Filtration media that has higher surface area will increase flow rate, and it will filter the oil through it better. If anything, this is probably the best reason to use a larger filter. 2nd, the larger filter is less restrictive and increases needed oil psi/volume for lubrication and cooling.
3rd, the larger filter hold more particles. This is beneficial if you are as lazy as me and sometimes push the oil change interval.

Filtration isn't rocket science.

 

[cryptokid]

dummy, change ur username to intelligent, as this is the nature of your post.

you described the reason i use a large filter, exactly.
good show.

 

[westex39]

My feeling is this. Once the filter is full of oil you have pressure in and pressure out. The engine doesnot know what size filter you have installed. Case in point, 1999 to 2002 GM 5.3 liter engines used a PF59 filter. In 2003 this same engine uses a PF44 filter. The only difference is the 59 is about 3/4" longer than the 44. To my knowledge there were no modifications made to the engine that would change the filter size requirement. Just GM trying to make a one filter fit all.
When you install a remote oil filter, generally you use a larger that stock oil filter with no adverse effects. So, if want to use a larger filter and everything else is equal, by all means do it.
I have a 2003 GM 5.3 Liter. I'm not about to use that dinky PF44. I plan to use the PF59, or the Wix 51522 which the PF59 crosses too.

Westex

 

[shoz123]

I've been using the larger size filters on all my cars since Ford went to smaller than FL-1A size back in the '70s. My reason is the increased oil capacity.