Any commercial airline pilots here?

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Alrighty, here goes:

1. For some reason I always get nervous we'll pull back from the gate but get stuck on the runway. I hear all the horror stories of people sitting there for 2-3 hours. So far it's only happened to me once...about a 20 minute wait because of some ATC radar issue. We also couldn't deplane for a bit one time because the forward door wouldn't open. Still, my claustrophobia starts getting to me when we sit there for too long. Realistically how often does this sort of thing occur? Are there certain days/times/airports that seem to be bad?


I can totally relate. I have claustrophobia and that's reason I don't like to fly (or be on a crowded bus, subway or metro train, or crowded elevators that potentially might not open). I don't like public transportation where you are in a crowded, confined area with no ability to get out. As long as the vehicle is moving and making progress I'm fine. It's when it's stopped and everyone is crowded in around me and there's no exiting that claustrophobia suddenly sets in.

I don't know what could be worse than being stuck on a crowded, cramped plane for an indefinite time on the "runway". Maybe in a stuck elevator, or on a subway stuck in a tunnel underground might be worse. At least with an elevator you can usually pry open the door and release the latch and at worse either jump down to the next floor or climb to the next. I worry that if I was stuck on a crowded plane sitting for a prolonged time I might panic and head for the emergency exit. Then I'd have the feds coming down on me lol.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: 757guy
Finally, you ask about anything I would like to tell about being a pilot, and I do have one comment:

It is not as fun as it used to be. I have flown for my airline for almost 28 years now, and between the 42% pay cut after 9-11, loss of the pension plan, to the new security directives, and less time at home with my family, I'm not sure I would encourage anyone to go into this career field.

Don't get me wrong, I have a very blessed life and am grateful for all that I have. But for someone to invest $50,000 into a 4 year college education, invest another $70,000 into getting the flying licenses needed, and then start out at a regional making only $18,000 a year, I'm not sure that is an investment I would make again, given all the other "quality of life" issues that have been eroded away over time.

Maybe I'm getting too old...I think I'll go take a nap!

757guy


I wanted to comment on that. It seems that it is the way the whole system is becoming, work life and personal. It wants you to bring massive amounts of skill, education and investment, and your time and in return give you peanuts.

 

[SEMI_287]

Originally Posted By: 757guy
But for someone to invest $50,000 into a 4 year college education, invest another $70,000 into getting the flying licenses needed, and then start out at a regional making only $18,000 a year, I'm not sure that is an investment I would make again.

Yeah, I'm feeling that crunch. Not sure if I'd do it again either. But hey, I love my job.

Originally Posted By: Astro14
the people at the majors are being paid less than SWA


Hey, what have you heard?

Astro really hit it out of the park with his answers as did 757guy. I'm not sure I can add much more to that. MDW is another fun place to land and take off. Get her down and hit the brakes. Soft landings are possible there, granted your not full. I miss landing at DCA. Always fun. I've seen a 767 land there.

I can add some interesting tid bits about the 737 though.
In the main cabin there's pieces of carpet that can be pulled up to view the main landing gear. This is not available on the NG's (-6/7/8/900). Water from the sinks go straight out of the aircraft via a heated drain mast. Poo poo water goes into a tank, sorry poo poo doesn't get ejected from the plane.
The -700 had a noticeable shudder when trying to land smoothly. Boeing ended up putting shimmy dampeners on the main gear. The -700 tends to "crab" while taxiing. Some NG's have an option for brakes made by Bugatti! The way the engines are attached to the wing you get a little "boost" to take off performance.

 

[757guy]

Some interesting things you see as a pilot: Outside air temperatures during cruise (35,000 and above) are around -60 C. Outside Air Temperatures at cruise are actually colder during the summer!

On average, we are traveling around 8 miles per minute when going eastbound and 7 miles per minute going westbound.

Flying through clouds colder than -40 Degress C. will not ice up your aircraft or engines. Clouds can still be in liquid form at that temperature, but it's just too cold to ice up your airplane.

Aircraft have greater climb rates in cold weather because the air is more dense. Greater payload capability too. Conversely, hot weather means longer takeoffs and less payload due to weight restrictions. (Air is less dense when it's hot outside.)

I have watched thunderstorms develop 100 miles in front of us that became towering cells up to 50,000+ in a short period of time. (We go around thunderstorms.)

Reverse thrust is really just forward thrust being diverted out of the side of the engine. That's why you see side panels retract on the engines during landing. Reverse thrust is most effective at high speeds and autobrakes come on automatically when weight is sensed on the main wheels.

The maximum altitude on the 757 is 42,000'. The 767 is 43,000', and the 747-400 is 45,100'. Usually never see those altitude unless very light fuel loads. The main restriction for those altitudes is the aircrafts' ability to get back down to 10,000' within 10 minutes because of a loss of pressurization.

If a windshield should crack and blow on a commercial aircraft, it will blow out instead of in because the pressure differential inside is 8.6 times greater than the pressure outside. Ram air pressure is only about 1.5 times static air pressure at altitude.

Almost all commercial aircraft now have full autoland capability with the only action required to deploy reverse thrust to stop the aircraft. You cannot turn off the centerline of the runway until you disconnect the autopilot. (It will fight you to stay on centerline!) Pilots don't like to use it, we would rather land ourselves! If the visibility is really bad, we are required to use the autopilot for landing. I have landed in Seattle using autoland with 600' visibility. The autopilot does a very good job of landing.

Fuel weights approx. 6.7 lbs. per gallon. We measure exact fuel density for international flights. We only load the fuel required for each flight with required reserves. The 757 usually has 5,000 lbs remaining after a typical flight. (less is the weather is extremely clear 360 nm around the destination airport.)

The 747-400 will land with approx. 20,000 lbs. of fuel after an international flight. (20,000/6.7= 2985 gallons.)

The 747-400 stores 3,000 lbs. of fuel in the horizontal stabilizer in the tail section of the aircraft. That fuel must be burned first to keep the aircraft within weight and balance limits during flight.

Max Takeoff weight for the 747-400 is 870,000 lbs. with the maximum landing weight of 630,000 lbs. Loose an engine or declare an emergency, you have to dump the extra fuel to get down to the maximum landing weight. Fuel dumps at a rate of 3-4,000 lbs per minute so it might take an hour of dumping fuel until you can land. Fuel will usually evaporate before it gets close to the ground.

Aircraft burn fuel at much higher rates in lower altitudes because the air is more dense. Higher altitudes mean much lower fuel consumption. Less oxygen available = less fuel burning. The aircraft jet engines take that thin air and compress it several times over to create high exhaust pressure out the back of the engine.

Aircraft pressurization is really a controlled air leak from the rear of the aircraft called an outflow valve. High pressure air is diverted from the engines, conditioned for temperature, and sent into the aicraft. The outflow valve will begin closing during takeoff power application but will never fully close. It modulates "the air leak" to maintain cabin pressurization at 8.6 lbs. per square inch pressure differential from the outside. Upon landing, the outflow valve will fully open to release any remaining pressurization. (That's why you cannot physically open a cabin door in flight, you would have to overcome the 8.6 lbs. per square inch of force to move that door. Cannot be done!)

Just a few of the interesting things to consider when you take your next commercial flight!

757 Guy

 

[SEMI_287]

Here is a picture of a 737 outflow valve with the heated drain mast where waste water comes out.

The 737 can be ordered with "air stairs." It's a set of folding stairs underneath the main cabin door. Not all parts of the plane are pressurized. The landing gear bays and after the rear-most part of the plane behind the cabin is not pressurized. So if you think your going to get a cheap flight somewhere by hiding in the gear bay, think again!

 

[greenjp]

I've got a question - what is the deal with the "airline pilot voice" that so many of the guys use when addressing the passengers? Is this the equivalent of the doctor's terrible handwriting?

jeff

 

[PandaBear]

757guy, cool info. How dangerous is getting hit by lightning?

and do passenger flights take mail / package delivery with spare weight / space or do they just take less fuel on board?

 

[SEMI_287]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
I've got a question - what is the deal with the "airline pilot voice" that so many of the guys use when addressing the passengers? Is this the equivalent of the doctor's terrible handwriting?

jeff

I talk in my normal voice with a little enthusiasm and try not to go "uhhhhhhhhhhhh"

I'm not sure why some of us do that. Welcome the customers aboard, give a little info on the weather, cruising altitude, planed flying time.

Originally Posted By: PandaBear

and do passenger flights take mail / package delivery with spare weight / space or do they just take less fuel on board?


The USPS contracts some airlines to fly mail for them. We have some mail, we take small spare parts and other company property on board as well. All of that weight is figured in our cargo weight (baggage). I can't speak for other airlines. We use average weight of an adult for the passengers so x amount of passengers times the average weight plus 50 pounds of luggage per passenger. That gives you passenger and baggage weight plus the extra from mail or other things are figured into the weight and balance.

For some further reading about weight and balance click here. There is a lot of planning that goes into each flight. We're not hanging out down in ops chatting it up... too much!

 

[757guy]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
757guy, cool info. How dangerous is getting hit by lightning?

and do passenger flights take mail / package delivery with spare weight / space or do they just take less fuel on board?


PandaBear,

As far as you being in any danger by being in an airplane that is struck by lightning, I'd say that it's almost a zero chance. Airplanes do a really good job of taking any lightning and discharging it back into the atmosphere. We are not grounded in any way, so the path of the lightning travels along the outer skin and back out of some other place on the fueslage.

Airplanes also accumulate a lot of static electricity when they are moving through the atmosphere, and that's why you will see small carbon fiber "tips" that look like pencils sticking out of the back of the wings, elevator, and tail sections of the airplane. They help discharge any static electricity build-ups that accumulate through normal flight.

About 10 years ago, I was in Fort Meyers, FL (RSW) waiting for an arriving airplane that I was going to fly back to MSP. After the airplance landed, the arriving Pilots told me that the airplane had a lightning strike during the approach. The airplane seemed to be fine, but a closer inspection revealed small rivet burns along the side of the fueslage that traveled up to the tip of the tail. It looked like the lightning jumped along the outside of the fueslage at 5 ft. intervals, and it was at those points that the small, flush rivets that hold the skin on the fueslage had black marks around the rivets. The rivets were intact, but it left a distinct travel pattern down the side of the fuselage.

Once an aircraft has been hit by lightning, there has to be a close inspection just to make sure there is no other damage. In this case, Ft. Meyers is a small outstation where there was no equipment available that could reach the tip of the tail for a complete inspection of the rivet burns. Even the tool rental places did not have a "lift" big enough to reach the tip of the tail. A boom truck from Tampa had to be driven down to make the inspection.

Long story short: we waited for 2 days for that airplane to be inspected. We then flew the airplane back to MSP without passengers so that a complete inspection could be done at one of the maintenance facilities. Interestingly enough, during the approach to MSP, the flaps would not deploy on one side of the aircraft, so it's possible the lightning did affect some components. The malfunction could have been totally unrelated to the lightning strike, since the flaps worked fine in RSW before takeoff.

As far as your question regarding mail/freight/etc: Freight is carried routinely in the cargo hold whenever possible. My understanding is that there are several types of cargo and will be loaded depending on priority. Using that extra space means big money for the airline, and yes, it is all weighed and planned for when using performance calculations and fuel requirements.

Hope that information helps,

757 Guy