Anti Sieze On Lug Nuts

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Never once have I twisted one off, never once has one magically loosened, and they always come off without having to use a cheater pipe. I say use the anti-seize and sleep well at night--but to each his or her own.


I agree 100%. I have NEVER seen a wheel stud broken off because of, "increased torque and preload due to lubrication". But I have lost count of the studs I've seen broken off from seizing due to lack of lubricant. I have also never seen one that, "magically came loose".

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: rideahorse
If you can't put wheel nuts on with a air gun without screwing things up. You are not much of a mechanic. Always use lube. For the guys who do not use lube. You have never changed a tire on a ANY trailer in the middle of the night in the cold/mud.


Never Seize always, all studs. Just don't screw up

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: billt460
He said he never had the wheels off since he bought it.


There's your sign. What does this have to do with anti-seize? I have a car that has had no anti-seize on the wheel studs for 50 years! But the wheels have been removed occassionally, so nothing is stuck...huh!


This has always been my practice. Rotate tires on a regular basis. After getting home from having tire work done at the tire shop, double check the torque. Do these things and I have never had a lug nut give me any difficulty coming off.

I guess there could be exceptions, such as the one given by the OP, where anti-seize may be the right choice. Who rotates tires on a tow trailer? But if you do, you better reduce the torque, as pointed out above.

Many years ago I had a Suburban that I did not rotate the tires on regularly. The front lug nuts seized up and I had to break off a couple. Tough lesson to learn. But I learned it well.

 

[i_hate_autofraud]

Key is that anti-seize is not the same as lube/grease, since actual tension on a stud can go
way too high if grease/lube is used, even when hand torqued with a torque wrench.

I use anti-seize in paste form in a big 'crayon' format, I'll drag it over the threads
along the length of a stud or bolt, 3 passes 120 degrees apart. I haven't seen it wash off.

If you hand torque and you test the release torque right afterwards you should be very close.

Studs snap when really high torque is needed to loosen them OR snap under tension from well
lubed threads that move much further to create the final torque needed to 'click' a torque wrench!

 

[unclescotty]

if they were supposed to have any sort of lube on them, it would show it in the factory service manual.

I'm 55yo and have been a car guy since the 1970's and an FAA licensed A&P mechanic since 1984 and I have NEVER used any grease or anti-seize on my lug nuts and never had any issues....likely because I DO use a torque wrench on lugs and torque them properly.

 

[bunnspecial]

I always use a small amount.

This may be unorthodox, but lately I've seen more issues on my own stuff with alloy wheels getting a bit "sticky" on the hub on the rotor. It's never been anything that a kick or smack with a lug wrench would free, but it still concerns me. For that reason, I generally give the center of the rotor a light brushing by hand with a wire brush and then smear some anti-seize on it. I haven't had a single wheel stick since I started doing this.

BTW, I'm a big believer in torque wrenches. They're cheap at Harbor Freight-I keep a 3/8" drive one with the correct sized socket in every car. I snug them into place with the lug wrench or a cordless impact if I'm at home or have one with me elsewhere, then do half torque and full torque.

I'll also add that I even if I don't have a reason, I pull all my wheels every 6 months or so. Aside from just keeping things free, it gives me a chance to inspect the brakes and suspension in a way that I wouldn't otherwise be able to do.

Knock on wood, I haven't had a road side flat in years, but with some pretty heavy construction around work I've changed tires more times for co-workers than I care to count. I can tell you that I've always been glad the times I've had the cordless impact as it does a decent job freeing even the most stubborn lug nuts. Used correctly, I also tend to think of an impact as being less likely to break a stud than using a giant cheater bar on a regular lug wrench.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

I burnish a small amount of anti-seize on the lug bolts when I purchase a new vehicle and one application is enough. Mostly to prevent corrosion. Torquing to factory specs has not been detrimental for fourteen years. Reduce to torque value by five percent if you are worried about breaking them.

 

[Boomer]

Chevy dealer that I used for 30 years had a mechanic I always requested. He was a gem. He always put a drop of ATF on every wheel bolt before installing the lug nuts. In all the years of working on cars I always did that and NEVER had a corrosion problem or a stuck lug nut. I torqued them with a torque wrench and they never gave me any issue at all.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Heck yeah. A little swipe around the thread ends. And torque them.
Spark plugs as well, even though some manufacturers recommend against it.
I torque to the low end of the range.
On a wheel, proper torque ensures the wheel is true to the hub.

 

[billt460]

A lot of this has to do with where you drive. I have been exposed to both. One of the worst place for rust and corrosion, (Chicago for 38 years). And the best for not having to deal with it, (Arizona for 26 years). In Chicago, with it's horribly long snow and road salt filled Winters, dry, non lubricated lug nuts are far more prone to corrosion and seizure. When I was a teenager there working at a gas station, people would come in right after the first big snowfall, to have their snow tires put on for the Winter. Snapped off wheel studs were a daily occurrence. (Luckily for us there was a brake and cylinder head machine shop right across the street that would replace them for us quickly). We were told by the owner in no uncertain terms, to ALWAYS apply some wheel bearing grease to the wheel studs when installing them.

We never had a broken stud when those same people came back in the spring to have them removed. And we never had one come back in with a loose or missing lug nut either. So that pretty much convinced me that some type of grease or anti seize on wheel studs was a smart thing to do. After we moved to Arizona in the early 90's, I kept up the practice because I saw no reason not to. Albeit the only time I get my car wet these days is when I wash it a few times a year.

I've seen videos that "prove" using machines, the same torque on a lubricated thread produces far more preload than a thread that is dry. It's just in real world application I have never seen a broken wheel stud, or loose lug nut because of it. While it's true you can go without it and not have an issue, (especially in non rust belt areas), it takes no time to apply a little and be safe in not having to deal with seized lug nuts. At least that's the way I look at it. Here is a video that shows how "dangerous" it is to use anti seize. Make of it what you will.

 

[Lubener]

A dab of grease, never antiseize for me.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: unclescotty
if they were supposed to have any sort of lube on them, it would show it in the factory service manual.

I'm 55yo and have been a car guy since the 1970's and an FAA licensed A&P mechanic since 1984 and I have NEVER used any grease or anti-seize on my lug nuts and never had any issues....likely because I DO use a torque wrench on lugs and torque them properly.

So, how's the weather down there in Texas?

Approaching a million driven miles, all of it on self-maintained vehicles with Anti-Sieze on the lugs. Never had a loose lug nut, let alone a lost one. Ever.

Only problems with stuck nuts is immediately after buying new tires. I have now made it a habit to remove and retorque (with torque wrench) after every service involving tire removal. I do all my own rotations.

Local Goodyear Tire & Auto takes the cake for overtorquing. Not only somewhere around 300 ft/pounds, but cross-threaded almost half of my lugs. Service manager swore on the phone that couldn't happen with torque sticks. I brought in several lugs (not nuts), slammed them down on the counter and said "explain to me how your torque sticks prevented this cross-threading."

They paid for new dealer lugs. Fortunately it was on a Dodge pickup, relatively easy for ME to replace. Never let those apes near my truck again.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Approaching a million driven miles, all of it on self-maintained vehicles with Anti-Sieze on the lugs. Never had a loose lug nut, let alone a lost one. Ever.

Only problems with stuck nuts is immediately after buying new tires. I have now made it a habit to remove and retorque (with torque wrench) after every service involving tire removal. I do all my own rotations.

Local Goodyear Tire & Auto takes the cake for overtorquing. Not only somewhere around 300 ft/pounds, but cross-threaded almost half of my lugs. Service manager swore on the phone that couldn't happen with torque sticks. I brought in several lugs (not nuts), slammed them down on the counter and said "explain to me how your torque sticks prevented this cross-threading."

They paid for new dealer lugs. Fortunately it was on a Dodge pickup, relatively easy for ME to replace. Never let those apes near my truck again.


This is my fear as well. I'm glad I am not the only one who feels this way about taking my vehicle in for something as simple as tire maintenance. I just don't trust them. You can't. And you are yet another good example of why. If you look at the age, pay grade, and skill level of the kids working at these, "Tire Centers", you're playing Russian Roulette to trust them to be working on your vehicle. They're all air gun happy, and most all of them simply don't care. They don't use anti seize. And they all lie worse than politicians. Quick and dirty, and tell the customer only what he or she wants to hear, in order to move them out the door as quickly as possible after swiping their card.

This is why at 65 years of age I still insist on crawling around on my driveway doing oil changes and tire rotations. The less any of my vehicles see of these kindergarten "Auto Service Centers", the better. And every time I'm forced to deal with them, I spend a considerable amount of time checking over every thing they did, or said they did. I've found too many things over the years to simply get in the car and start driving. At least with any confidence. The only way around this is to either do it yourself, (which I'm quickly getting too old to do), or else if you're independently wealthy, hire your own people like Jay Leno does. I'm not so I always keep a set of old clothes for cleaning my driveway with my back and rear end.