anti-freeze recommendations

[metroplex]

Its time for the annual cooling drain/refill for my 2000 Crown Vic and 81 T-bird.

The Vic requires VC-4A coolant spec, while I have no idea what the T-bird requires, for the past 23+ years its been using whatever green stuff that we got.

The E-250 needs VC-7A or the Premium Gold Ford anti-freeze, but its still too new to require a coolant drain.

Now what anti-freeze should I use for the T-bird and Vic for maximum protection against rust, electrolysis, etc?

Should I add Red-Line water wetter for added protection?

Here's a quote from their site:

quote:

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CORROSION PROTECTION
Modern automotive engines now use aluminum for heads, radiators, water pump housings, and nearly all hose fittings. These engines require significantly greater corrosion protection than their cast iron counterparts of the past. Aluminum is such an electroactive metal that it requires an impenetrable corrosion inhibitor film to prevent rapid corrosion. Acid neutralization capability is very important. Coolant which has been left in a cooling system for several years has probably become acidic from the oxidation of the glycol to acids. Also, keeping the glycol concentration in the cooling system below 50% will help stability.

Red Line also provides excellent protection from cavitation erosion in the water pump and cylinder head. Localized boiling in the cylinder head forms vapor bubbles which collapse when they come in contact with cooler liquids. This collapse creates tremendous shock waves which removes the inhibitor film from the aluminum surface and can cause catastrophic erosion of the aluminum if the inhibitor does not reform the film quickly. Another problem created by cavitation erosion is the deposition of the removed aluminum as a salt with poor heat transfer properties in the lower temperature radiator tubes. Red Line prevents this corrosion through effective film formation and smaller vapor bubble formation, which has a less violent collapse. Foam control is equally important since entrained air will cause cavitation erosion due to the collapse of foam bubbles. Red Line provides excellent control of foam with water alone and glycol solutions.

Most coolants additives on the market provide only protection for iron and perhaps moderate protection for aluminum. The milky soluble oil types can actually impede heat transfer by wetting the metal surface with oil and this oil can swell and soften rubber coolant hoses. Table 3 shows the many tests which the Red Line formula will satisfy and how it compares to a standard antifreeze.

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I was thinking:

Prestone green anti-freeze + 1 bottle of Redline Water Wetter.

Redline states not to use more than a 50% mixture of ethylene glycol because glycols can break down over time into acids. Less glycol = less potential acids?

For the E-250, it's got a 7 gal capacity so it looks like 2 bottles of Redline + an anti-freeze that's compatible with Ford Premium Gold?

Anyone know if the Premium Gold can be converted back to the green stuff? I have heard bits from various ppl regarding the need to stick with a manuf recommended coolant, then I've heard that they can be mixed, etc...

 

[metroplex]

BTW when mixing the anti-freeze and water, I shook the bottle rather harshly and noticed it foam immediately.

This occured with Zerek, Peak, and Prestone.

Would this mean that it'd foam when the water pump impeller starts churning?

 

[rob-the-oil-nut]

I have been using Water Wetter for a year or so, no regrets, will get more when I need to do a flush / replacement. I will also have the used coolant sent for tests. Also, I'll buy hi-purity (for instance RO, Reverse Osmosis) water as well.

If you use plain oil and the car over-heats should you change the oil early? *I* would think so.

 

[Spector]

Water wetter is most effective when running pure water. (racing applications) When you begin to dilute the water with antifreeze the ability of water wetter to reduce the temperature decreases dramatically. Like most additives, unless you are having a problem, engine running hot, don't waste your money, you will not see any difference worth writing home about.

As to coolant brands, not type, just compare the ingredients listed on the container, most are exact duplicates regardless of brands. Similar to generic aspirin versus Bayer aspirin.

 

[metroplex]

I heard that it wasn't a good idea to mix anti-freeze brands.

 

[Spector]

Last week in Advance Auto I placed a Prestone and ADV (their brand) of coolant side by side and compared the ingredients. Exact duplicates for all ingredients, number for number and chemical for chemical.

Now this is the green stuff, not sure if the long life dexcool brands are similar.

 

[metroplex]

I couldn't find a list of ingredients anywhere on the labels!

 

[FowVay]

The two coolant specifications that you listed have some commonalities. VC-4A is Ford specification ESE-M97B44-A. This specifies a low silicate coolant that meets ASTM D3306, D4985, and D4340.

VC-7A is Ford specification WSS-M97B51-A1. This specifies a coolant which meets ASTM D3306.

FYI: D-3306= requirements of Glycol based coolants
D-4985= requirements of low silicate
ethylene glycol coolants
D-4340= requirements of compatibility of
coolant with aluminum alloy metals.

So, for the car you can use practically any Low Silicate, Glycol based, coolant that is safe for all metals.

For the Van you can use any ethylene glycol coolant.

Personally I'd use Zerex G-05 in both applications even though the silicate level of G-05 exceeds the 250 ppm limit.

 

[metroplex]

quote:

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VC-7A is Ford specification WSS-M97B51-A1. This specifies a coolant which meets ASTM D3306.

FYI: D-3306= requirements of Glycol based coolants
D-4985= requirements of low silicate
ethylene glycol coolants
D-4340= requirements of compatibility of
coolant with aluminum alloy metals.

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So what you're saying is that the VC-7A doesn't meet requirements for a low silicate, aluminum compatible anti-freeze?
Hmm

As far as I can tell, the 5.4L SOHC V8 + cooling system is the *SAME* as the 4.6L SOHC V8's cooling system (same radiator, heater core, water pump, etc... designs with some structural differences) in the car.
Thanks for the info!

i have to find out if Prestone meets the VC-4A specs and VC-7A.

 

[FowVay]

It is sometimes strange how a manufacturer specifies chemicals for their vehicles. The vans (I am under the assumption that you have a Van) probably don't have the same maintenance schedule as the cars although they use the same engines. I suppose the duty cycles will reflect upon the maintenance schedule and product requirements.

Most heavy duty coolants for diesel engines will be of the low silicate formulation so look around at these. I believe Wal-mart sells a Shell branded coolant that may meet all of you requirements.

Please let us know what you ultimately choose to use.

 

[metroplex]

Hmmm.

I'll stop by walmart soon but do you happen to know how much the diesel anti-freeze costs per gallong?

I'm using Prestone (the regular stuff) for the Crown Vic (VC-4A Ford spec). I was planning to use Prestone for the E-250 Van (VC-7A Ford spec.