Another offshore wind project bites the dust

[SubieRubyRoo]

This one from NY and Equinor. Cost increases seem to have been the nail in the coffin.

Underlying question is: all of these projects, at the approval stage, most certainly involved planned sunsetting other power plants; think of the risk and cost involved to now reverse those closing plans and also revive maintenance and refurb projects on those power plants that were sidelined?

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...sell-offshore-wind-power-new-york-2024-01-03/

 

[ripcord]

It seems that project planners and biz execs always lie about projected costs and completion dates. Otherwise nothing gets approved.

 

[Snagglefoot]

This is onshore, but Alberta’s windmills rarely hit the total nameplate capacity. On the rare day it does, about 30% of our power comes from windmills. That’s really tough on the economics.

 

[daves87rs]

I hope they keep the old stuff online….

 

[Soft Cars]

I've heard that those windmills drive the whales in the ocean insane; so much so, that it makes them swim to the beach. You have to remember that whales hear all kinds of stuff humans don't hear. I don't like windmills anyway, so the whales would be a perfectly good reason to get rid of them.

 

[Jetronic]

We had whales beaching before we had offshore windmills, and we had 1 beach after we had windmills.

 

[VTECOverRated]

Solar and wind are a joke unless completely subsidized. Their peak capacity is rarely enough to justify their existence unless done for small scale compensation. I have done the math dozens of times, and for just my home to go off grid I would need a 2 acre solar farm with about 100kw in battery storage all in all materials and all labor done myself I would be out 170K USD. How long will that take to pay off? Decades? My power bill at its peak and after the recent price increase of 8$/1000kw was 300$ on a 5000sqft home, and I don't have natgas. In other words, at peak, it would pay off in 47 years. Sure, this is considering a fully off grid system, meaning that I have enough power generation and supply for all my needs year round, and this is to compensate for the power loss in the winter and cloudy/rainy weather, something people rarely consider on small scale roof installations.

Either way, solar is a scam when it comes to residential or large scale, its really good at medium scale compensation or micro scale maintenance like a speeding camera or something.

Just build nuclear already and forget about it. But what ever. Got to keep the Chinese factories employed I guess while RosAtom surpasses us by yet another 20 years of technology and expertise.

 

[PontiacHO]

These types of projects and the support funding is just a classic money flush. The “companies” present a project that the government (local, state, national) considers viable. The project then “fails” for any reason. The upfront funds are never recovered. The “company “ just walked away with a substantial sum of money without no more than a presentation to a governing committee.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Well in reading the article it sounds mostly about financing costs - the deals were signed in 2019 and 2021 - when interest rates were zero. I guess if NY wants wind farms they will need to pay more. If I want gas I have to pay more than in 2021 also. Sounds fair?

 

[oil pan 4]

It's not just cost increases.
In the before times when I went to wind power school over the water wind turbines were supposed to have at least a 70% capacity factor, they're struggling to hit 60%. And they underestimated the cost of pretty much everything. Laying the under sea cable used 10 to 20 year out of date cable laying estimates. The estimatee of doing repairs on over water wind turbines appears to just be a very optimistic and a very made up number.

 

[thastinger]

I've been paying 7 bucks a month on my electric bill for offshore wind, which we don't yet have any of.
I can't opt out of paying it, that fee has been in place for a couple of years.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Solar and wind are a joke unless completely subsidized. Their peak capacity is rarely enough to justify their existence unless done for small scale compensation. I have done the math dozens of times, and for just my home to go off grid I would need a 2 acre solar farm with about 100kw in battery storage all in all materials and all labor done myself I would be out 170K USD. How long will that take to pay off? Decades? My power bill at its peak and after the recent price increase of 8$/1000kw was 300$ on a 5000sqft home, and I don't have natgas. In other words, at peak, it would pay off in 47 years. Sure, this is considering a fully off grid system, meaning that I have enough power generation and supply for all my needs year round, and this is to compensate for the power loss in the winter and cloudy/rainy weather, something people rarely consider on small scale roof installations.

Either way, solar is a scam when it comes to residential or large scale, its really good at medium scale compensation or micro scale maintenance like a speeding camera or something.

Just build nuclear already and forget about it. But what ever. Got to keep the Chinese factories employed I guess while RosAtom surpasses us by yet another 20 years of technology and expertise.

I feel your pain, but let me help out with your units. Battery storage should be kwhrs, not kw. 100 kwhrs is piddly. Maybe you were thinking 1000 kwhrs. Usually off grid systems are sized for 3 days of cloudy weather with little solar output.

The price increase of $8/1000 kw should be per kwhrs, not kw. That translates to 0.8 cents per kwhr which is not much. Were you thinking 8 cents per kwhr?

 

[VTECOverRated]

I feel your pain, but let me help out with your units. Battery storage should be kwhrs, not kw. 100 kwhrs is piddly. Maybe you were thinking 1000 kwhrs. Usually off grid systems are sized for 3 days of cloudy weather with little solar output.

The price increase of $8/1000 kw should be per kwhrs, not kw. That translates to 0.8 cents per kwhr which is not much. Were you thinking 8 cents per kwhr?

Youre right, typo for the 1000. Missed a zero. 1000kwhrs is more than 3 days worth for me, but it was also about amperage and having cells in parallel was going to achieve that.

KW, KWHRS I know there is a difference but I shorthand. No, my power provider measures a rate increase in 1000, not 1. So 8.04$ per 1000 kwhrs.

 

[thastinger]

Solar and wind are a joke unless completely subsidized. Their peak capacity is rarely enough to justify their existence unless done for small scale compensation. I have done the math dozens of times, and for just my home to go off grid I would need a 2 acre solar farm with about 100kw in battery storage all in all materials and all labor done myself I would be out 170K USD. How long will that take to pay off? Decades? My power bill at its peak and after the recent price increase of 8$/1000kw was 300$ on a 5000sqft home, and I don't have natgas. In other words, at peak, it would pay off in 47 years. Sure, this is considering a fully off grid system, meaning that I have enough power generation and supply for all my needs year round, and this is to compensate for the power loss in the winter and cloudy/rainy weather, something people rarely consider on small scale roof installations.

Either way, solar is a scam when it comes to residential or large scale, its really good at medium scale compensation or micro scale maintenance like a speeding camera or something.

Just build nuclear already and forget about it. But what ever. Got to keep the Chinese factories employed I guess while RosAtom surpasses us by yet another 20 years of technology and expertise.

Yeah, most folks aren't willing to admit they would have to do away with home HVAC to be off-grid. I have a remote off-grid building that I designed the PV/battery system for. 1800W of panels, 48V 230Ah FLA battery bank, Midnite 200 charge controller and Cotek 48V inverter. I can draw a whopping 3kW a day from it in January with 3 days of overcast skies without getting below 50% SOC on the battery bank. There is a good bit of excess capacity in June, but you have to design an off-grid system for the min solar month and some cloudy days, otherwise you'll be in the dark and killing your battery bank.

True off-grid PV is about the most expensive power you can get. It only makes sense in rare situations.