Another Freezer Test™

[G-MAN]

Since I am considering switching to straight grade oil (just to see what the used oil analysis results are--at least at first), I did a Freezer Test™ last night with Valvoline 30 and Rotella T 15w40. My freezer stays between 0F and 10F. I used two small clear plastic Dixie cups. This morning both oils were equally fluid. I could detect no difference. Both would pour relatively easily. The 5w30 Shell I used as a reference was thinner and would pour more easily, but the difference wasn't as great as one would assume.

My observations are backed up by the vis calculator:

Viscosity of Valvoline 30 @ 10F = 4079.7 cSt
Viscosity of Rotella 15w40 @ 10F = 4635.6 cSt

 

[ericthepig]

Then why are we running multi-grades? This is a very surprising result. Your test would seem to indicate the a straight 30 is a viable alternative for spring, summer and fall use. (?) So a multi-grade doesn't shine till you're in a Minnesota winter?

 

[JAG]

Thanks for posting that, G-Man.

 

[G-MAN]

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Then why are we running multi-grades? This is a very surprising result. Your test would seem to indicate the a straight 30 is a viable alternative for spring, summer and fall use. (?) So a multi-grade doesn't shine till you're in a Minnesota winter?

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Not so fast. Look at the VI of Valvoline's straight 30. It's 113. The typical VI of pre SM rated SAE30 would be around 100, usually

This means that if you live in an area of the country where the winter low temps only occasionally drop below 32F, Valvoline 30 could be a year-round option. Or you could just switch to Valvoline 20W in the winter months (which is what I may do if I can find it). Or you could use Valvoline 30 in the spring, summer, and fall and switch to 5w30 in the winter.

 

[TallPaul]

Also makes me wonder, given that multigrades are so good today compared to yesteryear's multigrades, that with the much better modern base oils, they likely aren't putting that much VII in multigrades today anyway. So the straight grade and multigrade are much closer in composition compared to how they would have looked many years ago. As such, there seems little reason to use a straight grade over a well made multigrade.

 

[G-MAN]

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Also makes me wonder, given that multigrades are so good today compared to yesteryear's multigrades, that with the much better modern base oils, they likely aren't putting that much VII in multigrades today anyway. So the straight grade and multigrade are much closer in composition compared to how they would have looked many years ago. As such, there seems little reason to use a straight grade over a well made multigrade.

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VI improvers have gotten better, and the VI of the base oils has gotten higher, but the typical multigrade conventional PCMO still contains roughly 8%-15% VI improver. A straight grade is 0% VI improver.

 

[bulwnkl]

I agree with you, Paul. This suggests to me that using an SAE30 most of the year back in 1975 was a much better choice than 10W30. Today, I see ~0% ill effect of VIIs in my applications, and thus no reason in the world to use SAE30 over 5W30.

 

[TallPaul]

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I agree with you, Paul. This suggests to me that using an SAE30 most of the year back in 1975 was a much better choice than 10W30. Today, I see ~0% ill effect of VIIs in my applications, and thus no reason in the world to use SAE30 over 5W30.

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Still I like the idea of no VIIs, but more in the sense of Redline Oil where the base is so good that it already meets multvis specs without VIIs.

Nonetheless, G-Man's UOA results on straight weight will be very interesting and should provide much discussion on the site. Looking forward to it.

 

[teven7492]

G-MAN their are several posts on this site made by you were you say Valvoline is junk, now you are telling us to use Valvoline straight 30 in cars that require 5w20 and 5w30...whats going on here.

 

[G-MAN]

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Still I like the idea of no VIIs, but more in the sense of Redline Oil where the base is so good that it already meets multvis specs without VIIs.

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Valvoline 30 has a VI of 113. Valvoline 20W has a VI of 125. I'd be willing to bet that their 30 would meet the cold pumping and cold cranking J300 specs for a 20W, thus making it a 20w30. I'd further be willing to bet that their 20W will meet the J300 cold pumping and cold cranking specs for a 10W, thus making it a 10w20.

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G-MAN their are several posts on this site made by you were you say Valvoline is junk, now you are telling us to use Valvoline straight 30 in cars that require 5w20 and 5w30...whats going on here.

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Check the dates of those posts. GF-4/SM Valvoline appears to be a solid performer. And I'm not telling you to use anything in your car.

 

[ericthepig]

Yes, someone needs to give some clarity on the Valvoline product line. Maxlife is reaching Urban Legend status - aliens on long OCI voyages use it and brought it to us. Durablend is topshelf for a blend. Synpower is bottom shelf and should be hidden behind ST. I'm not sure what the consensus is on Valv. dino.

 

[BennyL]

how much VII is there in a typical 5W-40?

 

[Camu Mahubah]

I have used Valvoline all my life, no oil related failures. Valvoline's bad rap comes for VOA not used oil analysis, so to me the comments are inadmissable...
I am all for one using a straight weight in a climate that allows it...

All this weight stuff is starting to contradict itself, like the 10w30/30w Amsoil... I think G-MAN is cracking the code by looking at cST Viscosity and VI index instead of what it says on the bottle. Oil really needs to be relabelled or at least give it's specs on the bottle...

I too have done the freezer test on 30w, 10w30, 15w40, and 5w40...and I have left this same oil weights outside in minus 30 degree weather...Not as much difference as one would expect... try it yourself...

 

[wileyE]

Moving from the cold to hot, Say a Xw30 with 8-15% VII has the same 100c visc as a sae30. What happens when you go past 100c? which one would be thin out quicker? would the VII's be able to help the oil hold visc past 100c?

 

[Drivebelt]

My concern with straight grade oils is that some of them are still solvent refined Group I’s, particularly the 40 and 50 weights. Some of the oils sold as 30 weights are Group II’s, but it looks like a mixed bag.

Straight grade oils don’t necessarily not use VII’s. A 5w30 or 10w30 could be sold as a straight grade 30, the oil only has to be somewhere in the 9.3 - 12.5 cSt range.

If one looks at the Duron single grades …pdf the HD 30 has a VI of 123 …!!!

If the HD 30 oil is using no VII’s then it could probably be classified as synthetic. Since there is really no way P-C is using a synthetic base oil for their straight grade HD 30 (too expensive and the heaviest VHVI they make is 8cSt) this HD 30 is probably a Group II … say … 7-8 cSt with a little VII to get to 11.2 cSt -- this has the effect of bumping the VI from ~ 100 to 123. With a pour-point of -36C, the HD 30 looks like a 10w30 being sold as a 30.

According to the MSDS, Valvoline SAE 30 is majority CAS 64742-65-0 -- which is a Group 1 base oil … …
valvoline.pdf

 

[TallPaul]

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Moving from the cold to hot, Say a Xw30 with 8-15% VII has the same 100c visc as a sae30. What happens when you go past 100c? which one would be thin out quicker? would the VII's be able to help the oil hold visc past 100c?

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Approx viscosity in cSt at 0C, 100C, 120C

SAE30: 2500, 12, 7.5
10w30: 450, 12, 8.5

From "How to Select a Motor Oil or Filter for Your Car or Truck," by Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation

 

[buster]

Amsoil's ACD 30wt has a PP of -31F and VI of 141.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/acd.aspx

 

[G-MAN]

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Moving from the cold to hot, Say a Xw30 with 8-15% VII has the same 100c visc as a sae30. What happens when you go past 100c? which one would be thin out quicker? would the VII's be able to help the oil hold visc past 100c?

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Approx viscosity in cSt at 0C, 100C, 120C

SAE30: 2500, 12, 7.5
10w30: 450, 12, 8.5

From "How to Select a Motor Oil or Filter for Your Car or Truck," by Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation

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What was the VI of the SAE30? A higher VI on the 30 will yield less thinning at high temps (and less thickening at low temps). In other words, a straight 30 with a VI of 100 is going to thin more at high temps than one with a VI of 113 (which is the VI of Valvoline 30).

 

[cos]

"Both would pour relatively easily." I attempted to drain the 30W (good shape - low hrs on the oil) from my cold lawn-mower when the temps were in the 30's - it poured very very slowly. From that experience and a freezer test of 20W50 I thought a 30W at 0F would be super thick and certainly not pour.

 

[bulwnkl]

Perhaps your observation or similar ones is why some of us think that specifications based on testing used oil in addition to new would be highly desirable.