Another fluorescent ballast question or two

[JHZR2]

This time for 4’ T12 bulbs that are in old fixtures in my basement. They were there when we moved in >16 years ago. Basement is about 60F.

Fixture 1 - always has worked, very reliable. Haven’t used it in a while, turned it on. Bulbs glowed orange, started to operate, but were “crackly”. Like they were making noise and dropping off for a split second. Turned the whole thing off, then back on again and all was well. Burned proper and bright. Is this a sign of issues?

Fixture 2 - primary question. Stopped working a few months back. Didn’t matter much because of other lights in the basement. But I like the location and want to fix it. One of the two bulbs glows red like it’s trying to start, the other doesn’t do anything. They don’t come on. I assume the ballast is bad? I don’t think there is any starter.

Made when we actually made things.

I don’t see a sign of a starter in the circuit. What I see are ballasts that seem to want ten wires not eight.

Is there any reason not to retrofit it like this to ten wire?

How do I pull the wires out of these end fittings? Do they just “yank out”? These are quite old and I don’t want to break them.

 

[97prizm]

If I remember correctly you can't pull the wires out of bulb socket in the second picture. They are a one-time fit ie once pressed into the socket the wires are held tight. I'd get another ballast and put it back together. Make sure it's not a magnetic ballast old ones make that buzzing sound. If the bulb can't light off the ballast is most likely bad.

 

[oggb]

Turned the whole thing off, then back on again and all was well. Burned proper and bright. Is this a sign of issues?

Yes, but they'll usually last quite a while like that if you're only using them occasionally.

I'd buy LED replacement bulbs before I'd replace a ballast. Removing the ballasts and rewiring the fixtures for LED bulbs is very easy. You may need to replace the ends, commonly referred to as tombstones, as a lot of LED bulbs have single pin or recessed double contact style ends.

 

[2005jettatdi]

I replaced the T-12 tubes in the fixtures with the no balast, direct wire, T-8 LED lights. Not complicated at all and use less energy, plus put out less heat. Hint, don't do this by yourself unless you understand the difference between the "hot" and the neutral wires.

 

[Hall]

Have you checked the price of those old, magnetic ballasts compared to complete LED shop lights ? Might be something to factor in.

 

[xspeedy]

If this is a fluorescent fixture, just do a direct wire and remove the ballast and go to LED tubes. When you buy the tubes, make sure you buy ones meant for direct wire and not for use with a ballast. I did the three fixtures in my house and it was straight forward. Look on YouTube for some videos.

 

[CleanSump]

It was cheaper for me to go to Home box store and replace my 4' fluorescent fixtures with dimmable LED fixtures.

 

[mk378]

That is a very basic "strip" fixture installed in an unfinished space where it is simple to mount whatever fixture you want. Don't bother to retrofit these-- take the whole thing down and install a strip light that was built as LED from the ground up.

Another common approach to basement lighting is take down the old fluorescent and use the existing wiring to feed new outlet box attached to the floor joist. Hang a shop light or plug in strip light and plug it in. This makes the next replacement very simple.

 

[JTK]

From what you describe, it sounds like it was just a lamp pin fitment issue. A little corrosion or dust between the contacts, etc. Had you grabbed and wiggled a tube when they were just glowing orange at the ends, it would have probably fired right up.

That old magnetic ballast will work long after 4 foot T12 fluorescent lamps are no longer available.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Years ago I saw that replacement ballasts cost more than buying a whole new fluorescent fixture, ballasts included. Now the cost for a replacement ballast is probably even higher. I'd convert too.

 

[y_p_w]

If I remember correctly you can't pull the wires out of bulb socket in the second picture. They are a one-time fit ie once pressed into the socket the wires are held tight. I'd get another ballast and put it back together. Make sure it's not a magnetic ballast old ones make that buzzing sound. If the bulb can't light off the ballast is most likely bad.

I've been able to do that sort of thing carefully, but it does run the risk of pulling it hard and bending back the contacts. But those things are cheap and frankly more sensible to replace. Some in my house are about 40 years old and brittle. I'll only keep them if they're installed in a way that's hard to take out (I've got that with one setup although I converted to single-ended LEDs).

 

[PimTac]

This sounds normal to me especially if the light hasn’t been turned on in some time. The older fixtures were like that in those cases. Fluorescents like to be on most of the time. Switching them on and off is not the best. The newer bulbs handle it better but I agree with swapping in some LED lights instead though I suspect the OP might not want to.

 

[y_p_w]

If this is a fluorescent fixture, just do a direct wire and remove the ballast and go to LED tubes. When you buy the tubes, make sure you buy ones meant for direct wire and not for use with a ballast. I did the three fixtures in my house and it was straight forward. Look on YouTube for some videos.

I did that almost 3 years ago and have no regrets. Mine were the "toggled" brand from a company in Michigan. I did have one fail on me (the contacts started splaying) where it made poor electrical contact internally and their customer service just sent me a new one. And I could just take out the bad one since they worked independently, unlike ballasted fluorescents that only work properly in pairs. I also got two types wired to the same switch. Two 4 ft and 2 (was originally 4) 2 ft setups. I ended up with the dimmable (100-120V only) version for 4 ft but non-dimmable 100-250V versions for the 2 ft. The non-dimmable version has a delay (maybe a half second) before lighting up, while the dimmable version is instant on.

I also took the malfunctioning one apart. It was basically just LED strip lights on a narrow flexible board - mounted in a triangular form factor that went right into regular tombstones. They actually came with some pre-wired tombstones, but I preferred to use Levitons I bought for less than $3/pair. I also rewired as much as I could with specific black and white wires. I could only find 14 AWG cut to order spools at the hardware store and it worked even though the tombstones specified 18 AWG.

 

[y_p_w]

If I remember correctly you can't pull the wires out of bulb socket in the second picture. They are a one-time fit ie once pressed into the socket the wires are held tight. I'd get another ballast and put it back together. Make sure it's not a magnetic ballast old ones make that buzzing sound. If the bulb can't light off the ballast is most likely bad.

The ones shown in the photo don't, but some tombstones have a release (like all newer power outlets) in the center that pushes the contacts away so the wire can be easily removed. But anything that obviously old I think should probably be replaced. The plastic can start getting brittle and crack easily.

 

[JHZR2]

Yes, but they'll usually last quite a while like that if you're only using them occasionally.

I'd buy LED replacement bulbs before I'd replace a ballast. Removing the ballasts and rewiring the fixtures for LED bulbs is very easy. You may need to replace the ends, commonly referred to as tombstones, as a lot of LED bulbs have single pin or recessed double contact style ends.

I replaced the T-12 tubes in the fixtures with the no balast, direct wire, T-8 LED lights. Not complicated at all and use less energy, plus put out less heat. Hint, don't do this by yourself unless you understand the difference between the "hot" and the neutral wires.

I have t12 bulbs that I might as well use, so I’m not really interested in doing that. Replacing the ballast is also very easy.

Years ago I saw that replacement ballasts cost more than buying a whole new fluorescent fixture, ballasts included. Now the cost for a replacement ballast is probably even higher. I'd convert too.

It was cheaper for me to go to Home box store and replace my 4' fluorescent fixtures with dimmable LED fixtures.

Have you checked the price of those old, magnetic ballasts compared to complete LED shop lights ? Might be something to factor in.

I can get the ballast I need for my F40T12 bulbs for $13. Cheaper than any half decent LED. In one of my other garages I did T8 LED retrofits and frankly I’m not all that pleased with them. The T8 fluorescents that are also in that space are superior in most every way.

That is a very basic "strip" fixture installed in an unfinished space where it is simple to mount whatever fixture you want. Don't bother to retrofit these-- take the whole thing down and install a strip light that was built as LED from the ground up.

Another common approach to basement lighting is take down the old fluorescent and use the existing wiring to feed new outlet box attached to the floor joist. Hang a shop light or plug in strip light and plug it in. This makes the next replacement very simple.

It is. I do have some of those 5000 Lumen LEDs built from the ground up as an LED fixture, and they are far superior to anything that I’ve seen get wired in or run off the original light. I have some of each. If I was interested in swapping with an LED I would (I have in many places), but I’ve still various T8 and T12 bulbs that I’d like to use up (which will be a very long time),
So I’m better off replacing the $13 ballast than a $19+ LED.

 

[JHZR2]

From what you describe, it sounds like it was just a lamp pin fitment issue. A little corrosion or dust between the contacts, etc. Had you grabbed and wiggled a tube when they were just glowing orange at the ends, it would have probably fired right up.

That old magnetic ballast will work long after 4 foot T12 fluorescent lamps are no longer available.

That seems to be the case for fixture #1. It came back especially after the second cycle.

For fixture #2, I’ve done that already to no outcome.

Since in my one garage I have those 8’ T12 lights, and one ballast literally melted down, and another stopped working properly… Im not sure that the magnetic ballasts last forever… but I sure don’t want to swap one if it’s not the issue!

 

[Hall]

Another common approach to basement lighting is take down the old fluorescent and use the existing wiring to feed new outlet box attached to the floor joist. Hang a shop light or plug in strip light and plug it in. This makes the next replacement very simple.

That's what I did in our garage, well, a variation of that. It had (2) of those simple single-bulb light fixtures that I removed and swapped in outlets. Hung (4) Braun/Harbor Freight 4' LED strips out there.

Years ago I saw that replacement ballasts cost more than buying a whole new fluorescent fixture, ballasts included. Now the cost for a replacement ballast is probably even higher. I'd convert too.

I'm wondering if they've dropped in price as that's why I suggested he look at LED fixtures for a full replacement. I remember 2-light, magnetic ballasts costing $40-50 but Lowes has them for $25 or so. I might have been thinking of 8' bulb ballasts (those are a little more expensive).

 

[brianl703]

Im not sure that the magnetic ballasts last forever… but I sure don’t want to swap one if it’s not the issue!

They don't last forever. Back when I was in elementary school in the 80s, it seemed like at least every few months a ballast would fail and make an awful stench when it did.

 

[Hall]

They don't last forever. Back when I was in elementary school in the 80s, it seemed like at least every few months a ballast would fail and make an awful stench when it did.

They definitely don't... When I was in college, I worked at an electrical supply house and we sold and delivered ballasts. They were expensive and very, very heavy (very dense) and it seemed like no one ordered 1 or 2, they always ordered 1-2 cases !!

 

[brianl703]

They definitely don't... When I was in college, I worked at an electrical supply house and we sold and delivered ballasts. They were expensive and very, very heavy (very dense) and it seemed like no one ordered 1 or 2, they always ordered 1-2 cases !!

I've heard that when one ballast fails, the rest are not far behind so the best course of action is to change them all out. Supposedly failing bulbs will also kill a ballast, so facility maintenance managers often have all the bulbs replaced at the same time to prevent ballast failures.