Another Example of Coporate Greed gone wild!

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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Gary, can you write cliff notes for each post you make? I'm having trouble understanding you these days!


If I falter ..whom do I blame? I didn't borrow a dime. No subprime ..etc..etc. Idiots? How did they manage to infiltrate my life? This was nothing more than a fully engineered shake down of all of us. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to invest in my unicorn ranch.

We were living in a false economy, so don't pretend that it would have NOT had its own set of consequences for the lack of it. No massive credit ..no massive service employment ..no "tinkling down" ..blah-blah. How allegedly insightful and intelligent people get some polarized blinders on when stuff happens and don't see how they were sustained, enhanced, and maintained by fools and their folly ..is simple amazing.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Gary, can you write cliff notes for each post you make? I'm having trouble understanding you these days!
Gary's current posting style is quite refreshing and enjoyable to read
cheers3.gif
I say keep it up!
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Gary, can you write cliff notes for each post you make? I'm having trouble understanding you these days!


I think what Gary meant was that "smart and humble" don't complain that the "stupid and greedy" are causing trouble when the time is good because the "smart and humble" are also benefiting from the trickle down effect, but when the time is bad and the stupid and greedy got shafted and ask for a bail out, then "smart and humble" tell the "stupid and greedy" to go away, because the "smart and humble" don't want to pay for a bail out.

Did I get it right Gary?
 
Essentially. Don't profit off of the folly (your 401k/investments/savings - all good in a good economy) and then blame the fools when the scam they pulled collapses and you THINK you were ripped off in the consequences. You participated in gaining ..you are foolish to think that it was your wisdom alone that got you there. You just got a better share of someone else's folly ..and now that the house of cards has collapsed ..you think you deserved "more" in either retention or exemption for the whole cost of the party.

People think that they're always deserving of a "just world" ..yet that story is the same no matter whom you talk to.

Again, I had no big booty in the market ..all of my life's toil was, like most, in my house. That too was taken from me, but my whole lifestyle was supported ..transparently ..with pretty much all of us fools living a lie ..a false ..over extended existence that was assuredly not sustainable.

You can't run with the herd and then cry foul when the trail ends at the slaughter house. Every dividend, evaluation, quarterly report ..BIG BONUS was paid under false pretenses.

Why whine like you're divorced from the whole process?
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Do the CEO's in the above link really work harder than a short order cook slaving away all day at a hot stove and making yummy food for us?


Sounds like to me that you've not spent much time getting a Masters degree or further in education. (which I'm sure your short order cook above did in your example)

The CEO is a CEO for a reason. He has done the work before GETTING the position of CEO. They have SPENT more time and hours than the "cook" getting somewhere with a payoff.

The cook just complains instead of improving himself.

It is easy to whine. A lot harder to work.



No I don't have a Master's Degree. But I did get a degree and now work in law enforcement. Not everyone can have a Master's Degree and work in business. If so who would do all the hard but important jobs out there that we seem to take for granted. Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you work harder or are better than millions out there that do those "other" jobs everyday. Every job has it's importance to make society function. My point is their greed and the Wall Street mentality drove their high wages.

Why does the short order cook have to "better"himself? Maybe he loves what he does and is not the business or office type.

**Policemen, Fireman and doctor's save lives and protect people. Why can't they make millions? Oh lets see....maybe their priorities are different.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Essentially. Don't profit off of the folly (your 401k/investments/savings - all good in a good economy) and then blame the fools when the scam they pulled collapses and you THINK you were ripped off in the consequences. You participated in gaining ..you are foolish to think that it was your wisdom alone that got you there. You just got a better share of someone else's folly ..and now that the house of cards has collapsed ..you think you deserved "more" in either retention or exemption for the whole cost of the party.

People think that they're always deserving of a "just world" ..yet that story is the same no matter whom you talk to.

Again, I had no big booty in the market ..all of my life's toil was, like most, in my house. That too was taken from me, but my whole lifestyle was supported ..transparently ..with pretty much all of us fools living a lie ..a false ..over extended existence that was assuredly not sustainable.

You can't run with the herd and then cry foul when the trail ends at the slaughter house. Every dividend, evaluation, quarterly report ..BIG BONUS was paid under false pretenses.

Why whine like you're divorced from the whole process?
Nice pitch, no sale.

The alleged profits you cite were paper-only for the vast majority of us unless someone was able to cash out of house and 401(k) during the bubble. Which excludes the vast majority of us here.

I was never part of the process. All of the government programs that encouraged home sales to unqualified people excluded people like me. All of the current programs, COBRA stipends to help people pay for insurance, UI extension, loan modifications, yet another tax incentive to get people to buy houses they can't afford, and so forth, didn't exist when I needed them, and don't apply to me now.

So yet again, I get to foot the bill for the folly while doing so at a pay rate that's 16% less than I was making in 2003.

Keep telling me the sky is green, but I ain't buying.
 
Originally Posted By: opus1
loan modifications, yet another tax incentive to get people to buy houses they can't afford, and so forth,


Who profits when everyone gets a $8k check towards a house? Those who have houses for sale... The final transaction price reflects that cash infusion and the house was as attainable as it was beforehand.

The moral hazard here, of course, is it's great to buy highly leveraged real estate, as it can only go up.
 
Too many people in the world think they've really brought themselves up from "nothing". Many have no idea what "nothing" REALLY means.
 
Quote:
Nice pitch, no sale.


Oh ..but you're selling the same stuff ..

Quote:
The alleged profits you cite were paper-only for the vast majority of us unless someone was able to cash out of house and 401(k) during the bubble. Which excludes the vast majority of us here.



You betcha! So was the wages for everyone in every sector. All 100% electronic contrived money.

So far you're 100% with me here. You were trapped ..but you were also receiving alleged value out of a nation that was working for over a decade on false pretenses.

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I was never part of the process.


Not willingly or knowingly, but you could not escape either being falsely sustained or gain'd by it for a long time ..and therefore could not escape its collapse.

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All of the government programs that encouraged home sales to unqualified people excluded people like me.


I don't think this is true. It's what allowed people who could only afford $550k houses to buy $750k houses.

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So yet again, I get to foot the bill for the folly while doing so at a pay rate that's 16% less than I was making in 2003.


Sure. Get used to it. If it wasn't for this scam, you would have gotten used to it from 2001 or 2002 instead of NOW.


This is what people can't see. The WHOLE US economy was sustained by the false housing bubble. It wasn't a byproduct of a healthy economy where big ticket items and new home starts were leading economic indicators ..which provided watershed employment. They WERE the economy ...no true health required. Home Depot ..wire ..cable ..wood ..F250's (every contractor worth spit has F250 or F350 - keeping those assembly lines moving).

In essence, we would just be experiencing a massive slow down ANYWAY. The difference is that we were enabled to live normally and continue on as business as usual on false pretenses. Now we owe bills for stuff that never should have been made with jobs that are no longer available.

Where do you really think you would be if there wasn't the housing bubble?

Really?? Do you think you would be untouched? Would the economy not collapse anyway? The difference is what we owe for stuff that we really couldn't afford to do ..and the effects of that.

Still note who stood best out of this whole thing. I have a hard time blaming the participants as much as I do the engineers and the operators.
 
I don't see how 79% APR is corporate greed. Have you guys ever worked with perpetual deadbeats? These are the people with ficos in the sub 600 range. They have no sense of money management or morality. They will stiff you and disappear any chance they get.

If you don't believe me, why don't you lend money to them at 10% with no collateral, and we'll see how quickly you change your tune.
 
Then why enable them? You're certainly not doing any favors for them. Again, the crack dealer or the crack addict ..

Even something like Rent-A-Center has justification for their practices. The person who uses them isn't really paying any more than the same person going to Best Buy and putting a purchase on either Best Buy's or a 21% credit card in final costs. You rent a laptop from them and it breaks (not stolen or damaged) you get a new laptop ..the frig breaks
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman

**Policemen, Fireman and doctor's save lives and protect people. Why can't they make millions? Oh lets see....maybe their priorities are different.


Doctors do... don't think that they are sacrificing themselves for the better good.

Lots of folks will take the opinion, right or wrong, that being police or fire involves lots of sitting, traffic directing, etc., and in many communities, may NEVER involve a situation that is life-threatening to them. Again, right or wrong.

But in other cases, it comes to education. And Im not just talking "A" college degree in busuness, art, history, etc (not that there isnt a place for all that too). Im talking a degree in a difficult subject - engineering or the like, then coupled to a master's or PhD. The did not spend their time, effort and brainpower learning and understanding better than the next guy how the fundamentals of the universe work, just to get paid the same rate as an "unskilled" laborer.

So that begs the question, if one guy runs his brain for 3000 calories every day, and another guy digs ditches for 3000 calories each day, did one work harder than the other? One may be more advanced, may provide more value to the world overall, but then again, the ditch-digger may well have prevented some sort of major hassle that inconveniences thousands of commuters, or something like that.

At the lower echelon, it is a tough call - what drives earning power? education? perceived value to society? real value to society? I suppose the real determinant is real profit to the entity signing the paycheck. "risk", wear and tear or the like aren't really part of the equation, though in situations like LE, my understanding is that the pensions and retirement allow for quite early retirement ages... So these folks, in exchange for "risk", also get to "mooch" off of society for longer than others. Some jobs, like eos and financial advisors get HUGE sums of money for an intermediate degree (MBA or the like), and sometimes horrid performance. And, often they jump in and out of jobs - they arent the ones truly taking risk, yet are getting hug reward. The financial/insurance sector is one where things are really off, same for medical and legal, IMO.

Again, right or wrong. I certainly have not figured this out - Im trying to and am meanwhile jotting down my observations.

Everybody's priorities arent necessarily all good and wonderful. I think there is a real difference between the inner-city TSA "LE" operators at the local airport, and the real "LE" placed there. Now, maybe they all truly want to protect the population and country, or maybe they ALL wanted to just have a stable job... tough to really say.

But priorities are an easy way to turn a job to something heroic, even if they are operating a monopoly (e.g. doctors) and raking in undue sums of money for not much value.
 
Everyone is highly valued if the judge is really a peer review. Doctors, lawyers, and accountants determine what insurance companies bill and what doctors are paid. They rate themselves rather high in terms of value ..and they bill for it accordingly.

It's the same with CEO's ..they're "awarded" large compensation packages by their contemporaries that are on other boards of directors. It's a peer review. They think that they're worth it and pay accordingly. I personally would ask them not to work and let the legions of underlings that would do just what they do for 1/20th the pay ..and be very happy to do it.

It's the same with school administrators ..whatever.

You're into engineering. You're going to automatically play your own violin in the hardship that you perceive you've endured and how you think you're getting less than you deserve in comparison to others.

Teachers would use your level of compensation as justification for some alleged sacrifice that they made for being teachers .. They'll cite the level of education ..not mentioning that 90% couldn't handle your curriculum to begin with ..and that they often have redundant material to present (Has Macbeth changed since written?) they don't see that they have job security and a 9 month contract and aren't subjected to the notion that your 100 member engineering firm may be down to 12 next year and working more hours to keep pace compensation wise. Now there may be more demand and value to them ..but that's not what is often argued.
 
Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
I don't see how 79% APR is corporate greed. Have you guys ever worked with perpetual deadbeats? These are the people with ficos in the sub 600 range. They have no sense of money management or morality. They will stiff you and disappear any chance they get.

If you don't believe me, why don't you lend money to them at 10% with no collateral, and we'll see how quickly you change your tune.


Pointing out the alleged stupidity, laziness, whatever of one party does not excuse the extreme greed of the other party.
 
When I am talking greed I am not talking about doctors making a few hundred thousand a year or a 20% interest card. I am talking millions of dollars paid and outrageuos interest rates.

There is bad and there is unbelieveably bad.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Did I make poor decisions that make my $$ tank and my taxes, water & sewer and school costs run away


Did you vote?


Every time. What's that got to do with it. They're costs are merely going up due to the relative loss of wealth that I had to pay the tab. They're anchored and I'm falling.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Pablo:

I agree that it is greed all around that causes our issues today. But to have a company charge those type of rates is beyond any normal and reasonable sense.

If you want to penalize people at least make it a fair penalty.


What is "fair"? and who promised you fair?
 
Would you call yourself an honest person if you constructed mechanisms that were designed to be unfair ..and relied on fine print disclosure to say that you fully informed the unfairly treated?

Would you promote the teaching of this class on the MBA level as a rider to their business ethics requirements? Proudly a boldly author it? Standing tall in boasting of it's merits?


If you answer is no, then I would think that you would find this activity totally in poor taste and shameful. If it is YES ..then I have no comment.
 
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