Another "do I need a new router" thread: (sort of)

[97tbird]

1st of all, this is very similar to this thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2585011&page=1
, which I sort of hijacked a bit, but since I may have different questions, I thought I'd start a new one to get more focused replies.

We just moved and got rid of the horrible CenturyLink DSL service (paid for 10 mbps but never got more than 3-5 mbps in the evening and sometimes even in non peal times).

our new ISP is TWC with the 15-20 mbps 'turbo' speed level.
The cable modem is a Motorola.

I wanted to try the old Linksys WRT54GL with the new service first before getting a new router, which the OP in the above mentioned thread DID need to get optimum wireless speed, which HIS old Linksys never got with his internet service.

OK so I connected the old Linksys WRT54GL for now, and got it working. (had to do a MAC address clone to get it working with the new TWC Cable modem; earlier this router was working with the century link DSL modem)

Somehow, the speed is only about 11-23 MPBS with the Linksys.
When laptop is hard wired directly to the TWC Motorola Cable modem, it's about 19-20 MBPS.(what it should be)

(with the old centurylink DSL modem, the speed was [censored] enough directly connected to the modem, but there wasn't such a big drop when connected wirelessly - it was almost the same)

I did change the security from WEP to WPA personal - could it have anything to with that?

or just like the OP on that other thread did, do I just need a new router ??? is the WRT54GL just not cutting it with the TWC cable modem?

Thanks in advance.

The linksys is set to:
WPA Personal
broadcast wireless G only.
frame burst enabled.
channel 4 for broadcasting

EDIT: well as soon as I posted, it looks better...
this was the latest test just nowat 7:30 pm, which is kinda peak time)

_________________________

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird

Somehow, the speed is only about 11-23 MPBS with the Linksys.

Have you experimented with different wireless adapters (computers)? The issue may be with your particular wireless card, and not necessarily the router. Also, to get a better idea of actual capabilities of the router, try copying large files (like movies) from another local computer that's hardwired to the router. This way internet download speed is not a limiting factor.

Other than that, go to a B&M store and buy a new router and see if it does any better. If it doesn't, you can always return it and get your money back.

 

[Rand]

you only needed to mac address clone because you didnt power cycle the modem.

there can be any number of issues. The easiest thing is to get another router and see what the results are.

 

[97tbird]

Thanks - will play with it more and see.

ALSO: CORRECTION: I meant to say only 11-13 MBPS with linksys, NOT 11-23..

Just got a a result of 18 MBPS though !!!! that's pretty close to hard wired speed...

 

[97tbird]

OK so I am trying to decide which new router to try:

trying to decide between these 2:

1. Netgear WNDR 3700 (widely discussed in the linked thread on the 1st post of this thread)

2. Asus RT N56u: (has some pretty good reviews as far as stability and speed goes, and seems very easy to manage and set up... - no "guest" networks, but 2 Usb jacks, and can stream media in addition to storage...is the WNDR3700 storage only?)
http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/asus-rt-n56u-dual/4505-3319_7-34200558.html

 

[Volvohead]

Depends on what you're planning for it.

The old 54G series can still usually handle a couple clients with light cross-traffic if you're only using the router as a firewall at lower ISP speed tiers. Perhaps bouncing small office application files about, the occasional text print job, and some routine web browsing. The stuff we did in 2003 and 2004. It should pass 15-20Mbps tier service ok under optimum conditions.

But if you have any significant LAN activity going on, and/or you are provisioning at DOCSIS 3 ISP speed tiers, that router is going to be quickly overwhelmed by the load. Start running multiple multimedia streams through it (Roku/ATV/Squeezeboxen, smart phones, pads, etc.) like we do in 2012, and it chokes down. It's as simple as that. Hard wiring will help, but it's still only a 10/100 design.

Today's file sizes, speeds and traffic volume as exist on today's modern home network were just not on the designer's radar when this series was conceived six or eight years ago.

 

[Volvohead]

The WNDR3700 does USB storage, but I wouldn't use it.

Between those two, I'd take the Asus.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Out of those two, I'd go with the Netgear as it'll give you more freedom/upgrade-ability potential (can install DD_WRT or Tomato), which will offer guest network capabilities as well, if you really need it.

Otherwise, if you want an Asus, I'd skip the N56u due to the Ralink chipset and go for one with a Broadcom chip such as N66U or N16. I'm running Tomato Shibby edition on my N16 and it has been very stable so far, even when I throw a lot of P2P traffic on it. I'm sure the OEM firmware is OK as well.

 

[97tbird]

Great points.
To give you guys a better idea of what we use the router for:

our ISP is TWC with 15-20 MBPS "turbo' speed (which I do get when hard wired, so the speed is there)

Gadgets:
2 laptops for internet browsing, Youtube, photo uploading and the usual FB etc etc...
I sometimes do download complete movies in 720p and/or stream them.

Blu Ray player hard wired for Netflix Hi def streaming.
Might be an internet connected tv in the future.

2 iphones constantly connected when we're at home. don't do a LOT on them, but still...

what scared me about the Netgear is that the latest v3, is supposed to be buggy, compared to v1 and v2...wonder if I can find a v2 still in stores

 

[Volvohead]

If you buy a new router, buy one with some headroom. That way, you won't be staring at a bottleneck to replace in a couple of years.

The 3700 is on the backside of its life cycle. It doesn't do three stream N and can be bogged down in heavier LAN traffic. While the "model" is mature, you are right that the v3 HW is not the same as the earlier ones. Some of the early ones also had transmitter failures. So it is a hit or miss prospect with the older ones. We had a good v1, and it ran fine until we outgrew it only recently. It should be fine for passing 20Mbps WAN to your present client roster, though. Under that setup, your ISP is the present bottleneck where multiple download streams are concerned.

With your ISP "pipe", GB-LAN is only going to help you where inter-LAN activity is concerned. If you run a media server, GB can help enormously where streaming to multiple clients. A 10/100 wire should be fine for one or two moderate bitrate internet video streams like you're planning.

The only thing I can tell you is to try living with the 54G and see what happens, literally. If your video streaming starts stuttering and freezing up, then you'll know. Or you might be surprised that it can handle your present load, putting off a replacement for another few months.

Routers are computer hardware, with processors and memory, just like any other computing device. People sometimes forget that with network infrastructure. They do become obsolete as the network environment evolves, just like any other hardware.

I ran our old 54GS with the optional high-gain antennas, and the 3700 still beat it in the 2.4G band. Our new Asus crushes them both, and can manage a lot more traffic besides.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
If you buy a new router, buy one with some headroom. That way, you won't be staring at a bottleneck to replace in a couple of years.

The 3700 is on the backside of its life cycle. It doesn't do three stream N and can be bogged down in heavier LAN traffic. While the "model" is mature, you are right that the v3 HW is not the same as the earlier ones. Some of the early ones also had transmitter failures. So it is a hit or miss prospect with the older ones. We had a good v1, and it ran fine until we outgrew it only recently. It should be fine for passing 20Mbps WAN to your present client roster, though. Under that setup, your ISP is the present bottleneck where multiple download streams are concerned.

With your ISP "pipe", GB-LAN is only going to help you where inter-LAN activity is concerned. If you run a media server, GB can help enormously where streaming to multiple clients. A 10/100 wire should be fine for one or two moderate bitrate internet video streams like you're planning.

The only thing I can tell you is to try living with the 54G and see what happens, literally. If your video streaming starts stuttering and freezing up, then you'll know. Or you might be surprised that it can handle your present load, putting off a replacement for another few months.

Routers are computer hardware, with processors and memory, just like any other computing device. People sometimes forget that with network infrastructure. They do become obsolete as the network environment evolves, just like any other hardware.

I ran our old 54GS with the optional high-gain antennas, and the 3700 still beat it in the 2.4G band. Our new Asus crushes them both, and can manage a lot more traffic besides.


I hate to hear that our 3700 is already outdated. I mean I CAN bog it down, but it's ridiculously heavy loads that it does so. (Trying to run 3/4 torrents at 2.5MB/s down/200KB/s up while doing gigabit file transfers from one computer to another).

 

[Volvohead]

I didn't say that the 3700 is outdated, only that it's future service life is not as long as a newer model. It is showing some gray hair, but still gets the job done in most situations. I don't know if I would buy a one new today. But if you already have one, it is still a very capable router.

The 54G series IS outdated for many present multimedia networking demands.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Trying to run 3/4 torrents at 2.5MB/s down/200KB/s up

How many concurrent TCP/UDP connections?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Trying to run 3/4 torrents at 2.5MB/s down/200KB/s up

How many concurrent TCP/UDP connections?



Anywhere as high as 2000 with popular torrents. That's usually with 6 or so and its not verybcommon. But remember when I download torrents they are save on a server over the network. So it is several times the normall amount of Ethernet traffic, especially when you factor in the p2p.

 

[AandPDan]

I know it's been a few days but...

What are you running for firmware in the WRT54GL? If it's the stock stuff, dump it. You can flash it for Tomato or DD-WRT.

I've used both and prefer Tomato. It's very stable and has boosted my throughput.

Try it, see what happens.

 

[97tbird]

yeah it's on stock fW.

I've been thinking of DD WRT and Tomato for some time...I guess it's time to do as you suggest, before going with a new router...

I hope all goes well. I am going to use a wired windows 7 laptop/netbook to do it, i am weary of using the Ubuntu laptop somehow..

I hope I will have no problems of my blu ray player connecting to the net after FW. right now it works well...

I can/should do the tomato installation while the router is still connected to the modem, right?