An American Dentist Killed Zimbabwe’s Famous Lion
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Most animals are custom to being around people and many are seen as pets. The deer you shoot is probably being fed by your neighbor. I see hunting as the next big divisive issue in this country. Most highly educated people admire nature, not slaughter it. There are too many people for everyone to be hunting animals for food.
No, those people just don't kill their own "nature", instead it is raised in what is essentially a concentration camp and then slaughtered when it is "ready". This allows them to feel that they can ride some sort of moral high horse that separates them from the guy that goes out and drops a (single) deer with his rifle, and then has enough venison to feed his entire family until the next deer season.
Not everybody has the stomach to be a hunter, to kill their own food, so the point about too many people for everyone to be hunting animals is moot. But the folks that are consuming something somebody else killed don't have a leg to stand on in terms of casting judgement. The only people that do are vegans and there aren't enough of them out there to do much of anything, nor would they have the energy to do it (LOL!)
Most animals are custom to being around people and many are seen as pets. The deer you shoot is probably being fed by your neighbor. I see hunting as the next big divisive issue in this country. Most highly educated people admire nature, not slaughter it. There are too many people for everyone to be hunting animals for food.
No, those people just don't kill their own "nature", instead it is raised in what is essentially a concentration camp and then slaughtered when it is "ready". This allows them to feel that they can ride some sort of moral high horse that separates them from the guy that goes out and drops a (single) deer with his rifle, and then has enough venison to feed his entire family until the next deer season.
Not everybody has the stomach to be a hunter, to kill their own food, so the point about too many people for everyone to be hunting animals is moot. But the folks that are consuming something somebody else killed don't have a leg to stand on in terms of casting judgement. The only people that do are vegans and there aren't enough of them out there to do much of anything, nor would they have the energy to do it (LOL!)
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Again. I'm telling you there is going to be a culture clash between hunters and nature lovers. The deer you shoot is appreciated in a live state by people that widely outnumber you.
We're not there yet, but its coming.
Yes, appreciating the deer while filling their face with beef or chicken. All that moral high ground eh?
Originally Posted By: veal
We're just delicious little calves crated to keep us tender. But since you don't see us being killed it is OK to rage out about that guy down the road who drives off to his hunting camp and shoots a deer, one that has been able to run around free and breed. Oh the horror!
Again. I'm telling you there is going to be a culture clash between hunters and nature lovers. The deer you shoot is appreciated in a live state by people that widely outnumber you.
We're not there yet, but its coming.
Yes, appreciating the deer while filling their face with beef or chicken. All that moral high ground eh?
Originally Posted By: veal
We're just delicious little calves crated to keep us tender. But since you don't see us being killed it is OK to rage out about that guy down the road who drives off to his hunting camp and shoots a deer, one that has been able to run around free and breed. Oh the horror!
^ That's *almost* as bad. Killing for a head that you'll hang on the wall and a rug you'll toss on the floor is the absolute worst. Raising animals inhumanely for human consumption is almost as bad. I can't think of this stuff or I'll be a vegan.
The hunter and his guide need to be prosecuted under the laws of the land they committed the crime in. Sad thing is, I doubt if anything can be done. Obviously his dentist practice has been ruined, and maybe his life for quite some time. These idiot most likely KNEW they were next to a game reserve, and should have been more careful. Based on what I've heard, they "lured" the lion off the reserve, which tells me they knew exactly what they were doing.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
^ That's just as bad. I can't think of this stuff or I'll be a vegan.
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
^ That's just as bad. I can't think of this stuff or I'll be a vegan.
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: dishdude
^ That's just as bad. I can't think of this stuff or I'll be a vegan.
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I get the process and I updated my post after my initial submission. I have no problem with people hunting for game if there is an over population of the animal they are hunting and they use the complete animal. I don't get it, it's nothing that interests me, I'd never do it but I am okay with it.
I really don't like the inhumane treatment animals are subjected to as they are being raised for food.
I am disgusted by someone that would hunt this lion, decapitate it, skin it and leave the carcass behind.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
^ That's just as bad. I can't think of this stuff or I'll be a vegan.
That's the point. People (hypocrites) don't think about the process that allowed that burger to arrive on their plate, those McNuggets to arrive in that bag, those sausages to be on the shelf at the butcher, that ham they have in the fridge....etc. But that guy down the road that HUNTS!!!?? Sweet Lord Baby Jesus, he's the bloody DEVIL!! He KILLS DEER!!!
I get the process and I updated my post after my initial submission. I have no problem with people hunting for game if there is an over population of the animal they are hunting and they use the complete animal. I don't get it, it's nothing that interests me, I'd never do it but I am okay with it.
I really don't like the inhumane treatment animals are subjected to as they are being raised for food.
I am disgusted by someone that would hunt this lion, decapitate it, skin it and leave the carcass behind.
For one, canned hunts aren't limited to lions. I do not hold a 13 year old lion any higher than I would a trophy whitetail. Both are beautiful animals IMO.
Lion hunts do exist, but obviously the wrong lion was shot.. This brings up the if you aren't going to eat it, why shoot it debate.
Folks stirring this into an anti hunting debate are just missing the picture.
*Reading turtlevetts ignorant posts just makes my blood boil. Goodnight folks.
Lion hunts do exist, but obviously the wrong lion was shot.. This brings up the if you aren't going to eat it, why shoot it debate.
Folks stirring this into an anti hunting debate are just missing the picture.
*Reading turtlevetts ignorant posts just makes my blood boil. Goodnight folks.
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OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
I am disgusted by someone that would hunt this lion, decapitate it, skin it and leave the carcass behind.
So am I, as per my original post in the thread. My responses above were to turtlevette who appears concerned that the hypocrites, err, I mean "animal lovers" are going to clash with the hunters in the future. Strikes me as another scene from the movie Idiocracy unfortunately which means that it may actually happen.
I am disgusted by someone that would hunt this lion, decapitate it, skin it and leave the carcass behind.
So am I, as per my original post in the thread. My responses above were to turtlevette who appears concerned that the hypocrites, err, I mean "animal lovers" are going to clash with the hunters in the future. Strikes me as another scene from the movie Idiocracy unfortunately which means that it may actually happen.
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods? We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces. People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends. Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods? We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces. People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends. Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Joel_MD
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
That's some serious boot licking going on there. Calling a dentist a doctor.
Do you live in a place where one can be a dentist without a doctorate in dental science? In Minnesota you need a DDS to practice dentistry, and Palmer got his at the University of Minnesota. He's a doctor.
Nobody calls dentists doctors. Its an insult to people with real MDs.
I really don't know what planet you are on when it comes to (most stuff)...I am going to "the doctor" to see "Dr Ura", I am going to the dentist to see "Dr Toole"...
Here, go tell these ladies that they are mis-using a title.
http://www.keatingdentistry.com/meet-team/
http://beautifulsouthshoresmiles.com/dr-pronczuk/2812215
Apparently it IS their title in Ma.
Originally Posted By: Joel_MD
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
That's some serious boot licking going on there. Calling a dentist a doctor.
Do you live in a place where one can be a dentist without a doctorate in dental science? In Minnesota you need a DDS to practice dentistry, and Palmer got his at the University of Minnesota. He's a doctor.
Nobody calls dentists doctors. Its an insult to people with real MDs.
I really don't know what planet you are on when it comes to (most stuff)...I am going to "the doctor" to see "Dr Ura", I am going to the dentist to see "Dr Toole"...
Here, go tell these ladies that they are mis-using a title.
http://www.keatingdentistry.com/meet-team/
http://beautifulsouthshoresmiles.com/dr-pronczuk/2812215
Apparently it IS their title in Ma.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Mystic
[
They have to allow hunting.
No. Animals did fine without humans and will do so after humans are extinct.
Again. I'm telling you there is going to be a culture clash between hunters and nature lovers. The deer you shoot is appreciated in a live state by people that widely outnumber you.
We're not there yet, but its coming.
Yep, the dipsticks who go wading out in the duck fields to stand between hunters and birds, calling them names, cameras at the ready to see an "act of aggression" by a hunter are already at war.
They will lie, trespass, do anything to stop a legal activity.
And they are avowed to take on the "bloodsport" of fishing at a later date, and stop us all eating meat eventually...that's wat they say on the media.
Your type just likes to tell other people what they can and can't do. (while promoting some of the most abhorent acts on humans into the bargain as previously mentioned)
Originally Posted By: Mystic
[
They have to allow hunting.
No. Animals did fine without humans and will do so after humans are extinct.
Again. I'm telling you there is going to be a culture clash between hunters and nature lovers. The deer you shoot is appreciated in a live state by people that widely outnumber you.
We're not there yet, but its coming.
Yep, the dipsticks who go wading out in the duck fields to stand between hunters and birds, calling them names, cameras at the ready to see an "act of aggression" by a hunter are already at war.
They will lie, trespass, do anything to stop a legal activity.
And they are avowed to take on the "bloodsport" of fishing at a later date, and stop us all eating meat eventually...that's wat they say on the media.
Your type just likes to tell other people what they can and can't do. (while promoting some of the most abhorent acts on humans into the bargain as previously mentioned)
Jimmy Kimmel has something to say about it.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Mystic
[
They have to allow hunting.
No. Animals did fine without humans and will do so after humans are extinct.
Again. I'm telling you there is going to be a culture clash between hunters and nature lovers. The deer you shoot is appreciated in a live state by people that widely outnumber you.
We're not there yet, but its coming.
Yep, the dipsticks who go wading out in the duck fields to stand between hunters and birds, calling them names, cameras at the ready to see an "act of aggression" by a hunter are already at war.
They will lie, trespass, do anything to stop a legal activity.
And they are avowed to take on the "bloodsport" of fishing at a later date, and stop us all eating meat eventually...that's wat they say on the media.
Your type just likes to tell other people what they can and can't do. (while promoting some of the most abhorent acts on humans into the bargain as previously mentioned)
Couldn't agree more.
In this world where factory farms supply most proteins a consumer injests and the governing body allowing steroid use in animal products I don't for one second believe eating these products are in any way wholesome or good for your health.
I'd much rather(and do)eat wild game over anything bought in a grocery store. We are lucky here and there are many family farms where we buy our chickens and pork. I won't even eat store bought birds anymore. Rubber texture. Tastes like dust. No way is that how nature intended us to sustain ourselves.
An hour out of town I get brown fresh eggs for 3 bucks a dozen,5 buck a pound bacon smoked onsite and the most wonderful turkeys one could eat.
So Shannow has made a very valid point.
Sensible,concise and valid.
I do love a good debate though. Even(especially)when it's proven one side hasn't a leg left to stand on.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Mystic
[
They have to allow hunting.
No. Animals did fine without humans and will do so after humans are extinct.
Again. I'm telling you there is going to be a culture clash between hunters and nature lovers. The deer you shoot is appreciated in a live state by people that widely outnumber you.
We're not there yet, but its coming.
Yep, the dipsticks who go wading out in the duck fields to stand between hunters and birds, calling them names, cameras at the ready to see an "act of aggression" by a hunter are already at war.
They will lie, trespass, do anything to stop a legal activity.
And they are avowed to take on the "bloodsport" of fishing at a later date, and stop us all eating meat eventually...that's wat they say on the media.
Your type just likes to tell other people what they can and can't do. (while promoting some of the most abhorent acts on humans into the bargain as previously mentioned)
Couldn't agree more.
In this world where factory farms supply most proteins a consumer injests and the governing body allowing steroid use in animal products I don't for one second believe eating these products are in any way wholesome or good for your health.
I'd much rather(and do)eat wild game over anything bought in a grocery store. We are lucky here and there are many family farms where we buy our chickens and pork. I won't even eat store bought birds anymore. Rubber texture. Tastes like dust. No way is that how nature intended us to sustain ourselves.
An hour out of town I get brown fresh eggs for 3 bucks a dozen,5 buck a pound bacon smoked onsite and the most wonderful turkeys one could eat.
So Shannow has made a very valid point.
Sensible,concise and valid.
I do love a good debate though. Even(especially)when it's proven one side hasn't a leg left to stand on.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I have three cats and a dog. I love my animals. That said, I have no problem killing pest animals like a squirrel or raccoon that is being destructive.
The laws regarding killing an animal, even under disgusting circumstances like those depicted in the OP, are not however the same as for killing a human being. This is a slippery slope, animals are butchered every day for our tables, raised under abhorrent conditions for the purpose of being killed and consumed.
So while I certainly agree that this form of "sport" has no place in a civilized society, I do not agree with those that feel that he should be beheaded for killing the lion.
You don't go to jail for running over a raccoon or smoking a deer with your car. The repercussions for hitting a human are markedly different. So in the case of beheading this lion, the repercussion also, are (suitably) different. We humanize our pets, we make them part of our family, but as far as wild fare goes, this lion is no different from a bear, deer or moose, animals that are hunted (usually for food) every year. So while this was indeed wasteful and disgusting, it is not in-line with killing somebody's pet, let alone killing another human being.
I disagree with you and I'll tell you why:
In my strong far left or far right opinion, (not sure which it is) animals are exponentially better than us humans. Their lives are worth more than ours. Animals are incapable of doing anything evil. They are very much in my strong opinion, perfect. Animals work very hard to stay alive. There's no welfare system or social security benefits for animals. Animals never make mistakes and never do anything wrong - they can't because they're not human. Only humans are the detestable creatures walking this earth. I believe an animal's life is far more valuable than mine - that includes squirrels and raccoons. I have squirrels that come in my backyard and I see all the trouble they go through to find food. They work way harder then I do and I have much more respect for them than I do myself.
I have a spider jar that I keep in the kitchen for taking spiders outside. I don't see the point in killing them when all they need is to be relocated. The only spiders I kill are the black widows because they are a threat to my cat. I even use the spider jar to take cockroaches out of the house because killing them would make a mess and ultimately cause me more trouble then simply relocating them. Some of my most favorite bugs are cucumber beetles. I'm always rescuing them from spider webs and carrying them outside away from the garage. I value life very much and that Lion's life was worth far more than they detestable dentist. No comparison in value I'd say. I believe the laws are way too lenient for humans that kill animals needlessly.
I have three cats and a dog. I love my animals. That said, I have no problem killing pest animals like a squirrel or raccoon that is being destructive.
The laws regarding killing an animal, even under disgusting circumstances like those depicted in the OP, are not however the same as for killing a human being. This is a slippery slope, animals are butchered every day for our tables, raised under abhorrent conditions for the purpose of being killed and consumed.
So while I certainly agree that this form of "sport" has no place in a civilized society, I do not agree with those that feel that he should be beheaded for killing the lion.
You don't go to jail for running over a raccoon or smoking a deer with your car. The repercussions for hitting a human are markedly different. So in the case of beheading this lion, the repercussion also, are (suitably) different. We humanize our pets, we make them part of our family, but as far as wild fare goes, this lion is no different from a bear, deer or moose, animals that are hunted (usually for food) every year. So while this was indeed wasteful and disgusting, it is not in-line with killing somebody's pet, let alone killing another human being.
I disagree with you and I'll tell you why:
In my strong far left or far right opinion, (not sure which it is) animals are exponentially better than us humans. Their lives are worth more than ours. Animals are incapable of doing anything evil. They are very much in my strong opinion, perfect. Animals work very hard to stay alive. There's no welfare system or social security benefits for animals. Animals never make mistakes and never do anything wrong - they can't because they're not human. Only humans are the detestable creatures walking this earth. I believe an animal's life is far more valuable than mine - that includes squirrels and raccoons. I have squirrels that come in my backyard and I see all the trouble they go through to find food. They work way harder then I do and I have much more respect for them than I do myself.
I have a spider jar that I keep in the kitchen for taking spiders outside. I don't see the point in killing them when all they need is to be relocated. The only spiders I kill are the black widows because they are a threat to my cat. I even use the spider jar to take cockroaches out of the house because killing them would make a mess and ultimately cause me more trouble then simply relocating them. Some of my most favorite bugs are cucumber beetles. I'm always rescuing them from spider webs and carrying them outside away from the garage. I value life very much and that Lion's life was worth far more than they detestable dentist. No comparison in value I'd say. I believe the laws are way too lenient for humans that kill animals needlessly.
Good people are going to the guy's dental business and upset.
people are outraged over a lion killed by someone with more money than sense, yet they ignore trafficking in human body parts...
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods? We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces. People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends. Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
I would love to argue that you are out of touch with reality, vis-a-vis management of wildlife (especially in populated areas). But it is obvious to me you are merely trolling concepts that a 12 year old child would find nonsensical.
But for others that disagree with sport hunting but do understand the controlling of wild life in unwanted areas like deer in suburbs.... I respect your position and understand it. I do hunt pheasants for sport. These birds are "stocked" by the State Game commission. which is paid for by license fees. Again..I respect others dislike of this but at the same time I will not shoot a bird as it flies out of its cages. Wouldn't even dream of doing it. But I have seen it.
I will also shoot ground hogs not as a sport but they decimate areas. They are very destructive. Its not unlike killing a mouse in a mouse trap.
I dislike the dentist for what he did.
Because there are feed lots = its OK to hunt?
There are compeating interests. I want to move to the country to feed the deer. Someone else wants to hunt my "pets". I'm going to have a problem with that.
Why is that hard to understand? Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt? Why does your right trump mine? People have to post their land with a gazillion no hunting signs here. I'm telling you things are going to change at some point.
There's too many idiots with high power rifles out there anyway. You want that going on with your kids playing in the woods? We had a state trooper shoot a woman here, hunting in a simi residential area. There are no more wide open spaces. People are everywhere and animals think people are their friends. Its shameful to shoot an animal coming up to you for a hand out.
I would love to argue that you are out of touch with reality, vis-a-vis management of wildlife (especially in populated areas). But it is obvious to me you are merely trolling concepts that a 12 year old child would find nonsensical.
But for others that disagree with sport hunting but do understand the controlling of wild life in unwanted areas like deer in suburbs.... I respect your position and understand it. I do hunt pheasants for sport. These birds are "stocked" by the State Game commission. which is paid for by license fees. Again..I respect others dislike of this but at the same time I will not shoot a bird as it flies out of its cages. Wouldn't even dream of doing it. But I have seen it.
I will also shoot ground hogs not as a sport but they decimate areas. They are very destructive. Its not unlike killing a mouse in a mouse trap.
I dislike the dentist for what he did.
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"Kimmel needs to get a grip..."
Hmm, let's see what did he say.. He said that 'he's not against hunting for food, for conservation/keeping the animal population healthy or part of your culture'...
Also said the answer not to start a witch hunt for the dentist, but 'it should be handled in a lawful way.'
Sounds quite measured, rational and lucid to me.
And is accurate in that baiting to lure the lion out of the park is illegal. So what's legal elsewhere or for other animals is irrelevant to Cecil.
And as also noted in the monologue, the dentist had previously been convicted of a felony for lying about where he killed a bear in Wisc.
So Kimmel nailed for me. Dr Dbag the trophy hunter, imo, is over compensating for his short comings.
Hmm, let's see what did he say.. He said that 'he's not against hunting for food, for conservation/keeping the animal population healthy or part of your culture'...
Also said the answer not to start a witch hunt for the dentist, but 'it should be handled in a lawful way.'
Sounds quite measured, rational and lucid to me.
And is accurate in that baiting to lure the lion out of the park is illegal. So what's legal elsewhere or for other animals is irrelevant to Cecil.
And as also noted in the monologue, the dentist had previously been convicted of a felony for lying about where he killed a bear in Wisc.
So Kimmel nailed for me. Dr Dbag the trophy hunter, imo, is over compensating for his short comings.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt?
O.K., you asked the question:
Here is your Answer!
Why do people think they have some God given right to hunt?
O.K., you asked the question:
Here is your Answer!
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