Amsoil Upset with FTC.

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Hey Pablo,

No one said you were a vitamin pusher!
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It's funny that you say you would "never sell the traditional MLM soap and ****."

Yet Amsoil is selling laundry detergent now.
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I feel for ya bro, it seems that you have to defend yourself around here all the time. I think that has to do a lot with your avatar, which further reinforces my point. Most people look at MLM with disdain.

For what it's worth, I think you are a swell guy.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Louie's gone fishing:
What? Amsoil sells vitamins and soap? Am I living in a spider-hole?

...and lawn fertilizer...and water filters too.

So now that you know that little tid bit of information, does that change your view of Amsoil?

(I know it did for me, but I still buy the oil products)

Actually, if BITOG did not exist to show UOAs that proved that their oil worked well I would have probably dropped Amsoil long ago. A company that doesn't get the basic tenets of marketing makes me uncertain if they lack in quality control or R&D. What gets me is that the products that they chose to sell just reek of scam.

I recently had a friend become a “financial planner” for a company called World Financial Group. Now, what I found funny is that I would never take financial advice from a guy who has had 2 cars repossessed, but I digress. I let him do his little song and dance with his “trainer”. His trainer explained that they were all “private contractors”, so that WFG can immediately cut anyone who is not up to par – that is why they are so successful (again, they picked my deadbeat friend for what reason?!?). Anyway, even they knew not to say MLM. Of course as soon as I sniffed MLM it was all over. There was nothing he could say that would win me over, he even said that I should look at this meeting with a “couple sets of eyes”. One of those sets of eyes was for me to look at it as a possible business opportunity. That’s when I opened up a beer and sat back.
 
quote:

Originally posted by biomed_eng_2000:
So does that mean Amsoil's marketing model is a legitimate MLM scheme?

No. It means Amsoil is a legitamite MLM business. To call Amsoil a scheme is unfair, IMO.
 
quote:

Good Oils.... just a questionable/deceiving way to describe their products.

FTC needs to do more!

Wow - I don't think the proposed rules mention marketing Castrol, Mobil, etc? What words do they use that are questionable/deceiving?

And more seriously - What "more" should the FTC do?

PS Yes it is pretty bad that no one checked that date.

PSS

http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/businessopprule/IndexA.htm
 
Other MLM companies are starting to EASE out of the MLM mode and become like everybody else.
A MFG with a distribution network.
Slick-50 was MLM for a long time, now you can buy it everywhere.
Even FullerBrush is selling through regular business channels.
Maybe the time is near when Amsoil does too.
It's XL line is sold through the normal channels, even though it's still the highest priced 'blend' out there.

As for me, I'll stick with the usual product sold the usual way. I've known a few people that were convinced they'd be on easy street if they got into a MLM product line. Didn't happen. They spent more money on meetings, seminars, kits, and promotional material, than they ever made sell the stuff.
 
About 25% of Amsoil business is to commercial fleets and a significant portion of their remaining lubricants are now sold through quick lubes and independent auto parts stores, bike/snowmobile shops, etc. This is particularly true of their two cycle oils and motorcycle oils. However those outlets are still signed up by dealers as commercial and/or retail accounts and that won't change, since it's been highly successful.

The Amsoil dealer simply takes the place of salesmen who work for other oil companies and deal with these commercial/retail accounts. I see little or no difference in the method of distribution.

The XL product line is targeted at Quick Lubes, however those businesses are still signed up by individual dealers as Retail Accounts....

TS
 
With the reputation of the big oil companies, (Shell, Exxon,Crooks Etc) people still buy from them, and yet will not buy because of the MLM nature so inturn hurting the small business man/woman.

You guys crack me up!!
 
So you dont like some of their sales people??

I dont ever recall having a Amsoil "Sales Droid" ever knock on my door???

If you become a dealer, Amsoil does not make you buy any oil, you pay your 20$ fee and get their magazine and that is all you hear from Amsoil. To put this in perspective, my cousin sold that Princess House Crystal glassware ****. To become a dealer you had to buy like 2000$ worth of the ****. Of course they then have all the stupid partys and expect all the family and friends to buy the overpriced **** from them. That is MLM **** at its worse!

For full disclosure I have used Amsoil for 23 years, have a preferred customer account and my brother is a dealer, primarily for our own use.

PS, what is worse, obnoxious commercials from other lubricant companies rammed down our throats on TV which I dont care to watch or an Amsoil sales droid;)

quote:

Originally posted by Laminar Lou:
I have to say that the MLM nature of Amsoil is definitely a turn off. Having a vitamin business and packaging that literature with the oil products line is even a larger turn off. I think the marketing department really is missing the mark at Amsoil. I think they would sell a lot more of their products if they at least portrayed an image that didn't sound so "shady".

I think Amsoil is successful because they make a good product, but their marketing is detrimental to their brand image. Just because it has worked for this long doesn’t mean that it always will. Today’s American consumer is much more aware and more protective of their dollars with the advent of the Internet. They see rip-offs every day.

I buy Amsoil in spite of their MLM structure, but I get this uneasy feeling whenever I see those silly Altrum adds. Am I the only one that thinks these two businesses need to have a lot of distance between them? Would you buy herbal supplements from Mobil or Castrol?
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quote:

With the reputation of the big oil companies, (Shell, Exxon,Crooks Etc) people still buy from them, and yet will not buy because of the MLM nature so inturn hurting the small business man/woman.

I found that especially ironic.

I don't knowingly engage in unlawful activities in my life. However, the implication sometimes seems to be that I'm a criminal dealing with a mob Ponzi scheme - because I'm an Amsoil dealer. It's pathetically funny - because I've worked in the China supplier food chain and seen the supply chain in many forms (some none too legal). Amsoil is sometimes corny, stupid, stubborn, even ignorant with their marketing, but I have seen no illegal activity.
 
I like the fact that I can buy Amsoil products at close to member cost at the local Fleet Farm store in Wisconsin....no hassle no membership fees no MLM stuff ...just in-n-out.
 
I have NO problems with my AMSOIL business. Those who purchase product from me do so with the knowledge that it is a good product. They care not how it is marketed. I give good service and am honest about what the product can and will and will not do. You come here with an old junker and want to make it go another few more miles I'll suggest you just keep using what you have. AMSOIL is not a miracle in a bottle.
There are thousands who make their living selling AMSOIL. I am one of those individuals.

I for the life of me can't understand what is the big deal about the MLM side of the business. It is what has made AMSOIL a success. I enjoy the business and the people I deal with/customers. Is it jealousy on the part of those that don't like it or just plan ignorance of the business. I really don't care. This is not a perfect world where you get whatever you want your way. If I always looked at things in as negative I wouldn't have made it a success.

I only have grade 10 education. I worked as a mechanic for years, worked at Esso in Sarnia, drove truck etc. Lived on a farm all my life and as of this spring retired from farming to do the AMSOIL business full time.

If I can make a go of selling a product that no one ever heard of 13 years ago to become an AMSOIL Executive Direct Jobber then it sure must have been because of the superior product line and not my experience as a sales rep. (No previous experience in sales!!)
Give someone a good product that does what is claimed with a caveat(I lean toward the conservative side of recomondations) and you have a customer base that will referr customers to you.
For those that think AMSOIL should change their way of distributing AMSOIL products, what makes you the experts in what they should do. It has become a VERY successfull company with a VERY loyal customer base.
These are my opinions whether you like them or not.
 
But TonyMazz, it's only one specific line that Amsoil markets to retail outlets, their XL blend; and it is the highest price blend you'll find, at Fleet or anywhere.

Amsoil's reason for the MLM sceme/plan is/was because the average consumer wasn't educated about synthetic oils and their advantages. That is not longer the case. With most all oil blenders offering a synthetic, even Wal-mart has a house brand syn., that reason no longer holds water. Tighter control of the marketing, given some of the wack-o dealers, doesn't seem to be working very well.
Any other reason?
Red Line and Royal Purple don't seem to need MLM.
 
Many of the other MLM organizations prey on people with what today would be considered relatively little formal education. Those who have been around and seen what these other outfits have gotten away with have been turned off on all such selling systems, even high-quality, upright outfits such as Amsoil, though I agree Amsoil doesn't deserve it. Many people who distrust MLMs think that Amsoil stands for "Amway oil" because of how it's sold. Again, though I don't like the FTC proposals, they are understandable given the realities of other MLM outfits.

Of course, these are my opinions too. But in short, you were fortunate enough to have made a great choice in company and product, Don. I've known others who lost their shirts selling Amway and similar schemes (the word does have a sinister connotation in this use). The point others on this thread have tried to make is that Amsoil would probably become even more successful and have even more of a loyal customer base without the MLM system. This ain't 30 years ago.

I commented in the thread three years ago that every Amsoil rep I had met to that point had been more interested in trying to sign me up as a rep than in selling the (excellent) product. At the North Carolina state fair and certain farm shows, I approached Amsoil reps about buying some of their products on display and was told that they had just brought what was on display to show, but they would really like to set me up to be a rep under them. . . . (Why go to the expense of renting space to display a product if you don't intend to sell that product at that show? Crazy. Unless your real intention is to troll for new reps.) Those are Amway tactics. And they really turn off most people and tarnish the name of the product. Pablo and, I presume, you are refreshing exceptions.

[ September 13, 2006, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: ekrampitzjr ]
 
Although this thread has been mostly negative in nature, there are some things that I think Amsoil has got right:

1) A direct website to order product
2) A nearly full product line offering, with oil filters, air filters, and many oil choices
3) fair shipping prices


Number 1 and 2 are probably the biggest reason I keep going back to Amsoil. I found that I spent a lot of time driving around to get the oil I needed and the time and money on gas saved by ordering direct makes me more inclined to buy from them again. The shipping prices are fair for the weight, and although it takes me a week to get the oil I have never had a shipping issue with wrong product in the box. I like being able to get oil filters, air filters, and the like all in the same spot for all of my vehicles. I even like their little "fast funnels".
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Their website could use a little tweaking, but all in all I can get around in it pretty well.
 
For those that think AMSOIL should abandon the thousands of dealers who make up the MLM part of the business.....well...are you idiots!!!!
Sorry I have to be so blunt.
This would be like GM or Ford laying off ALL their employes.
I know AMSOIL is not that big....be gee guys. What are you thinking.

Al is commited to his dealers. They are what made AMSOIL. To drop the MLM to make a few extra sales...no way. He wouldn't do it. He has more money than he can ever spend so what would be the point. They are growing almost 10% a year now as it is.

If this ever happened it would hurt AMSOIL more than ever help it.

As for their prodcut line, just about everything can be sold through stores that are AMSOIL dealer accounts.



Nuff said.
 
I want to be clear, I have never believed that Amsoil has ever done anything illegal, and I do think that their MLM "design" is honest and I would not lump them in with other MLM companies. MLM has worked for them in the past, but I believe they would be more successful if they tried a more conventional marketing approach.

My point was to illustrate that I think that most folks wince when they hear a company is MLM and approach it with extreme caution.

My previous comment about the World Financial Group was to further illustrate my personal viewpoint of MLM. It took me a long time to trust Amsoil because of their MLM model. It took a bunch of UOAs from BITOG for me to give their products a shot, and I am happy with that decision.
 
Don,

Breathe. Calm down. This is a discussion forum. Not everyone has the same opinion as you do. Some posts in this thread are from folks with a chip on their shoulder, or idiots whichever you prefer, but losing your cool like this makes you look pretty bad. You said your opinion that abandoning the MLM would be a bad idea. Others said their opinion that abandoning the MLM would be a good idea. That doesn't make them an idiot. You know what they say about opinions - they're like belly buttons, everyone has one.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Don Stefanik:
With the reputation of the big oil companies, (Shell, Exxon,Crooks Etc) people still buy from them, and yet will not buy because of the MLM nature so inturn hurting the small business man/woman.

You guys crack me up!!


The problem with the "someone else is worse" defense is that it's a tacit admission that the person/business being defended does have a problem.
 
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