Amsoil TEOST Test VS Pennzoil Piston Deposit Test

[Mathew_Boss]

As the title says, what do you think is better data for a deposit test? The Amsoil TEOST ASTM D6335 or the Pennzoil "Based on ILSAC GF–5, Sequence IIIG piston deposit test" Also, I belive Castrol is using the same test as Pennzoil for the Edge Black Bottle. When the latest formulation came out they made Pennzoil take down the 40% cleaner than edge and now state 42% cleaner than industry standards. (PP says 40% cleaner)

Amsoil test can be found here: Amsoil Test

Pennzoil Test can be found here: Pennzoil Test

The Amsoil test shows Valvoline with less deposits than PUP and the M1 seems about the same in both tests.

Rants, ready go!

 

[ExMachina]

Pennzoil Sequence IIIG is better since it uses an actual engine.
TEOST is hot tubes and rods.

 

[Mathew_Boss]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Pennzoil Sequence IIIG is better since it uses an actual engine.
TEOST is hot tubes and rods.


So since they removed Castrol from there propaganda board one could conclude that Castrol is cleaner in there own test?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Mathew_Boss
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Pennzoil Sequence IIIG is better since it uses an actual engine.
TEOST is hot tubes and rods.


So since they removed Castrol from there propaganda board one could conclude that Castrol is cleaner in there own test?


Hard to say, if they are cleaner but not 40% cleaner they can still demand taking down that claim.

But being say 10% cleaner than Castrol doesn't sound as sexy as 42% cleaner than industrial standard.

 

[donnyj08]

Amsoil has also tested their 5w30 SS on a double length sequence IIIG test. For a total of 200 hours.

I'm betting SS would keep Pistons just as clean or cleaner than PUP. Both oils are top notch IMO.

Both oils use moly, calcium, boron additive packages. Amsoil has quite a bit more calcium and Moly, However.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Pennzoil Sequence IIIG is better since it uses an actual engine.
TEOST is hot tubes and rods.


Bit like sequence IV and 4 ball...ones an engine test and expensive, and one is quick, cheap, and makes for good advertising.

 

[Justin251]

Does any oil over beat amsoil in their own house?

Or any other oil claim to be beat by a competitor?

Marketing.

I'm unaware of a completely unbiased third party tester.

 

[The_Captain]

Originally Posted By: Justin251
Does any oil over beat amsoil in their own house?

Or any other oil claim to be beat by a competitor?

Marketing.

I'm unaware of a completely unbiased third party tester.


Exactly!
Be careful! Don't pull the curtain back too far, they might see there is no wizard! Just a bunch of "independent" dealers selling overpriced oil to themselves and their friends.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Justin251
Does any oil over beat amsoil in their own house?

Or any other oil claim to be beat by a competitor?

Marketing.

I'm unaware of a completely unbiased third party tester.


Oddly you don't think the Pennzoil is marketing?

Amsoil has the oil tested by SWRL

And it's strange comparison because the OP doesn't mention Sequence IIIG piston deposit test that is more recent:

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3320.pdf

Don't mind the marketing bashing, but because Pennzoil seems "slicker" it looks better?

Originally Posted By: The_Captain

Exactly!
Be careful! Don't pull the curtain back too far, they might see there is no wizard! Just a bunch of "independent" dealers selling overpriced oil to themselves and their friends.


Well thanks for that. Some of my customers are my friends around the country, but most aren't.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Well thanks for that. Some of my customers are my friends around the country, but most aren't.

Take heart, Pablo. I would wager that buying Amsoil under a proper arrangement up here would be cheaper than buying most synthetics at regular prices up here. I don't like to chase Walmart Canada's and Canadian Tire's sales. So, I buy from a distributor. I bet there are other Canadians who don't like chasing those sales and simply buy from an Amsoil distributor.

 

[Justin251]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Justin251
Does any oil over beat amsoil in their own house?

Or any other oil claim to be beat by a competitor?

Marketing.

I'm unaware of a completely unbiased third party tester.


Oddly you don't think the Pennzoil is marketing?

Amsoil has the oil tested by SWRL

And it's strange comparison because the OP doesn't mention Sequence IIIG piston deposit test that is more recent:

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3320.pdf

Don't mind the marketing bashing, but because Pennzoil seems "slicker" it looks better?

Originally Posted By: The_Captain

Exactly!
Be careful! Don't pull the curtain back too far, they might see there is no wizard! Just a bunch of "independent" dealers selling overpriced oil to themselves and their friends.


Well thanks for that. Some of my customers are my friends around the country, but most aren't.


I mentioned that on the second line.

All of it is just fluff marketing. Amsoil always blows away the competition in their in house tests. Go figure.

The same goes for pennzoil, mobil, castrol, etc.

One oil is 40% better than another in xxx test. Ok? 40% of what? One showed 0.005 microns wear and another showed 0.0045 microns?

My point was that there is no independent tester with an agreed upon standard.

They would make buckets of cash from oil manufacturers paying to be the best.

 

[ExMachina]

Amsoil makes quality stuff.
That literature Pablo cited http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g3320.pdf is pretty straight. And others too like that, they do more than most companies about providing meaningful info. SWRL info is solid folks. I may start using Amsoil at some point. I've always been getting name-brand oils like SOPUS, Castrol, M1, etc. in the past.

 

[WankelRotorHead]

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Amsoil makes quality stuff.


Amsoil MIXES quality stuff...they don't actually make their synthetic base oil, it is sourced from ExxonMobil. It's their very robust additive package in their SS that makes it a strong oil.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Amsoil makes quality stuff.


Amsoil MIXES quality stuff...they don't actually make their synthetic base oil, it is sourced from ExxonMobil. It's their very robust additive package in their SS that makes it a strong oil.


Well not many actually make synthetic base oil, but Mobil doesn't supply all the base oil (Common internet myth). Amsoil purchases from various sources. Both base oils AND additives make an oil.

 

[Shannow]

Pablo, is that part of the reason that they don't get API certs on their premium lines ?

If you change suppliers of GrIV, it would have to be retested, unless it was certified as chemically and physically identical to the one it was certified with.

Not getting certified gives more leeway in allowing a more optimally priced product.

 

[buster]

All of the top tier synthetics will do well on the SEQ IIIG, some a bit better than others. PU is comparing their oil to regular M1, not EP. The Amsoil IIIG test is impressive. Amsoil is also using 3,500+ppm of Ca so the SA is way high. I'd expect it to keep engines very clean.

Some of the VOA's I've seen of Amsoil show almost 4k ppm of Ca.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: buster
All of the top tier synthetics will do well on the SEQ IIIG, some a bit better than others. PU is comparing their oil to regular M1, not EP. The Amsoil IIIG test is impressive. Amsoil is also using 3,500+ppm of Ca so the SA is way high. I'd expect it to keep engines very clean.

Some of the VOA's I've seen of Amsoil show almost 4k ppm of Ca.


Amsoil's Signature 5W30 has absolutely fantastic looking test numbers to my eyes, but the high calcium scared me off. At least one study found that increased CaSa concentrations led to increased autoignition in a supercharged DI engine (and I'm assuming that a DIT engine would have similar dynamics).
http://papers.sae.org/2014-32-0092/
So, I'm sticking with relatively low calcium M1 for now. It's a shame, because the Amsoil looks SO good otherwise.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Pablo, is that part of the reason that they don't get API certs on their premium lines ?

If you change suppliers of GrIV, it would have to be retested, unless it was certified as chemically and physically identical to the one it was certified with.

Not getting certified gives more leeway in allowing a more optimally priced product.


If you dig around the net enough, Amsoil has stated why they do not seek API certification across their whole line. The Cliff Notes version is that holding to API certification actually restricts their ability to engineer and offer a better oil.

That being said, Amsoil backs their oils regardless when proper weight and recommended oil from their product line is used. Like just about any quality oil brand, finding an Amsoil related failure is like finding a Unicorn.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Quote:
Exactly!
Be careful! Don't pull the curtain back too far, they might see there is no wizard! Just a bunch of "independent" dealers selling overpriced oil to themselves and their friends.


+1

 

[4wheeldog]

I have the same opinion of AmSoil as I do AmWay. Both make some good products, but are more religion that substance.

I discount anything they put out as "Testing" because it is biased.