Amsoil SSO 0-30w, 14.3k miles, 08 GMC Acadia 3.6L

[jetman]

LAB: OIL ANALYZERS(Indy)

The first #s are from Dec.2010, the oil had 8.1k miles and 8 mths.

The second #s are from May 2011, the oil had 14.3k miles and 13 mths.

A month after the first sample results came back, I installed a TopDog engine oil bypass filter system w/EaBP90 filter. I also installed a new and larger filter in the full flow position. A Baldwin B329. I also installed a new air filter.

The car had 56k total miles on it at second sampling.

WEAR METALS-PPM
Code:
Iron 20....42

Chromium 0......0

Copper 7......7

Tin 0......0

Lead 0......0

Chrom 0.0....0

Nickel 0.0....0

Alum 5.0....6

Silver 0..0...0

Cadmium 0......0

Vanadium 0......0

CONTAMINANT METALS-PPM

Silicon 42.....50

Sodium 15.....27

Potassium 4......3

MULTI SOURCE METALS

Manganese 3......3

Titan 0......0

Molybdenum 10.....8

Antim 0......0

Lithium 0......0

Boron 9......7

ADDITIVE METALS-PPM

Magnesium 12......12

Calcium 3115....2949

Barium 0.......0

Phosph 542.....554

Zinc 627.....642



V100C 10.1....10.4

I-R Oxidation 44......63

I-R Nitra 35......42

TBN 8.01....1.72

Fuel
Soot Vol
Water pre>




Dec. 2010 LAB COMMENTS: Silicon/dirt are at a Moderate level; Oil is suitable for continued use.



May 2011 LAB COMMENTS: TBN is SEVERLY LOW; Infrared results indicate OXIDATION is SEVERLY HIGH; Abrasives (silicon/dirt) are at a MODERATE LEVEL; Change oil and filters



After the second sample, I changed the oil, again using 6 qts of SSO 0-30w. I also changed the full flow filter to a Amsoil Ea011. I drained the old oil out of the EaBP90, refilled it with new SSO, and put it back on, since it only has about 4k miles on it.



I plan to changed the oil and ff filter once a yr. The wife puts about 14K miles a yr on it.



What do ya think?

 

[ltslimjim]

Perhaps changing the air filter helped silicon readings 'only' rise 8 more ppm from 8,100 to 14,300(6,200 miles). I would run this next set up to 8,000/8 months and sample again by either of those markers. If silicon is high still and it's because of dirt/previously poor air filtration; perhaps the bypass filter can help that clean up some. OTOH, you may run an extended OCI for another year with dirt that otherwise you could really afford to have was out of the engine. Any work done on the engine to expose it to dirt entry?

Otherwise, I still would caution against just making it once a year; then forgetting about it. I think your sweet spot could be by 12,000 miles or 10 months; most things staying consistent and trending in a good direction. If things improve after a re-sample following 2/3s-3/4ths of the way through the next year(by 8,000 miles or 8/9 months); perhaps a full year is advisable. 14,000 still appears to be already at this oil's limit. I urge you to leave yourself more headroom for tolerance of unknown variables and definitely re-test instead of blindly sitting on a year OCI and sampling at the end of another year only. Even with reliable UOA's, it's educated guesswork.

 

[chubbs1]

Good response slimjim. I don't think there is anything much more to add to that. It is a decent (actually pretty darn good) UOA for 14K, you can squeeze by with 12mo OCI's if you are very diligent in keeping a reminder to change. It's definitely doable. Good luck!

 

[hate2work]

You'd be better served by doing 7k changes using the Amsoil XL product. No need for sampling costs and trouble, plenty of "headroom", and much more peace of mind. Then you'd be able to forget about your engine oil and think/worry about something that really mattered

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: hate2work

You'd be better served by doing 7k changes using the Amsoil XL product. No need for sampling costs and trouble, plenty of "headroom", and much more peace of mind. Then you'd be able to forget about your engine oil and think/worry about something that really mattered

The OP wants to do a yearly OCI, not 2 times a year because of "headroom" for peace of mind.

After seeing the results @ 14k i think its very possible to go the distance, given the fact that the car now has a bypass filter installed, which should keep the oil cleaner and the TBN higher.

I'll see you next year!

 

[FZ1]

Yeah,but 2x a year is better for my piece of mind. 5 quarts of M1 EP,including an M1 filter, from AZ at $35 2x a year is hard to beat.

 

[Artem]

^I agree about the piece of mind part, however, the OP is choosing a once a year OCI for CONVENIENCE!
I say with the bypass filter installed, 1 year or 15k is very do-able and the engine will still outlast the rest of the car in 10 years.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: Artem
why does everyone seem to miss reading that part in every OCI thread that's posted.


Maybe because there is nothing magical about pushing your oil to it's very, very utmost limits and hoping that you haven't hurt anything. And we should not be encouraging others to do so.

I stand by my first post, the OP would be much better served with semi-annual changes with the XL product or another well made oil.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm with Don on this one. Something many of us fail to consider is this: While many of us here on Bitog know oil much better than 99.999% of the driving public, there are people buying used cars who look for service records. Tough sell telling someone you used an oil good for 12 months or 25,000 miles [have UOA reports to back it up], and changed the oil once a year at 14,300 miles of normal service. I'd buy the car that followed the OM service intervals.

Please note, I'm not bashing extended drain intervals, but I for one would not buy a used car from someone doing extended OCIs. I think there are plenty of other members here who are not part of the 99.999% driving public I mentioned above who also share that opinion.

 

[Artem]

Although i agree about pushing the oil to its limits, isn't that the whole purpose of synthetic oil though?

The OPs wear didn't seem to increase much from the 8k run vs the 14k run. Had he capped it at 12 months, i think it would have been a great UOA.

again, the fact that a bypass filter is now installed on the car further aids the oil to last longer.

Following Amsoils X miles or 1 year rule to qualify for the warranty sounds pretty do-able to me, considering the bypass filter.

Had this UOA report been at 8k and the OP is asking to stretch it out to 14k with a 1.7 TBN and some [censored] oil filter, i would be against it but given the current situation and the bypass filter, 15k or 12 months looks like a go in my book.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm with Don on this one. Something many of us fail to consider is this: While many of us here on Bitog know oil much better than 99.999% of the driving public, there are people buying used cars who look for service records. Tough sell telling someone you used an oil good for 12 months or 25,000 miles [have UOA reports to back it up], and changed the oil once a year at 14,300 miles of normal service. I'd buy the car that followed the OM service intervals.

Please note, I'm not bashing extended drain intervals, but I for one would not buy a used car from someone doing extended OCIs. I think there are plenty of other members here who are not part of the 99.999% driving public I mentioned above who also share that opinion.


If a seller doing extended drains provided plenty of UOA reports leading up to a final, safe, extended OCI limit which was then followed for x amount of years and having test drove the vehicle and seen/felt that everything is functioning properly, i wouldn't hesitate to buy the car.

Since more and more car manufacturers are extending their OCIs to 10k+ what will most of you say in a few years when you're looking for a used car where the factory OCI is 15k??? Will you turn away from a perfectly good BMW and buy a Kia which spec'd 5k OCIs instead?

There are situations where extended drains are perfectly safe, if a high quality oil/oil filter is used and the OCI isn't ridiculously high (like some reports i've seen where oils are pushed further then the manufacturers specs)

btw, more cars are traded in then sold privately where you can ask the original owner (miles and ask for receipts, UOA, etc etc.

When i bought my 05 S2000 used back in 07 i literally spent a good 4 months searching and went and test drove a good 8 cars which fit what i'm looking for before finally finding the car of my dreams at a small dealers lot with 10,000 miles on it. The oil on the dipstick was VERY black and i suspected that it probably was never changed. (oil filter was a pain to remove)

^having went through 8 cars from private sellers, asking them a ton of questions, i bought a car from a dealer with an unknown history.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Although i agree about pushing the oil to its limits, isn't that the whole purpose of synthetic oil though?

The OPs wear didn't seem to increase much from the 8k run vs the 14k run. Had he capped it at 12 months, i think it would have been a great UOA.

again, the fact that a bypass filter is now installed on the car further aids the oil to last longer. Not for me. I use synthetic oil because it's a superior fluid;not for extended ocis. Op's #s aren't,particulary,good,so I don't think this is the best time for a long oci.

Following Amsoils X miles or 1 year rule to qualify for the warranty sounds pretty do-able to me, considering the bypass filter.

Had this UOA report been at 8k and the OP is asking to stretch it out to 14k with a 1.7 TBN and some [censored] oil filter, i would be against it but given the current situation and the bypass filter, 15k or 12 months looks like a go in my book.

 

[Artem]

I'm taking into account that his future report will look better thanks to the bypass filter.

I also use synthetic oil because its a better oil and not necessarily for its extended drain ability (except in my Civic EX)

The OP however is interested in extended drains and is doing everything possible to do so safely, so i say, let him.

 

[FZ1]

Sorry,my comment didn't print. I use synthetic because it's a superior fluid,not for extended ocis. Op's numbers are not good enough,at this time,for a long run. JMO.

 

[Artem]

Yea i had to search for your comment hidden deep inside my quote. Haha.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Will you turn away from a perfectly good BMW and buy a Kia which spec'd 5k OCIs instead?

No I'd pass on the Kia and buy the BMW if that's what I was looking for. The catch is I'd find a BMW from an owner who did more frequent OCIs. Trust me there are plenty of them out there, and I'd shop around and find one that meets my criteria. UOA reports are not what they're cracked up to be either, and should be taken with a grain of salt. There are lots of mistakes looking through the UOA section.

 

[demarpaint]

How about this, so we compare apples to apples. Two identical cars with 100K miles on them, used exactly the same way, identical in every aspect. Car A. Mobil 1 EP changed every 6 months at 10,000 miles, with a M1 filter. Car B. SSO changed once a year at 20,000 miles, with an EaO filter. Which car would you buy?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
How about this, so we compare apples to apples. Two identical cars with 100K miles on them, used exactly the same way, identical in every aspect. Car A. Mobil 1 EP changed every 6 months at 10,000 miles, with a M1 filter. Car B. SSO changed once a year at 20,000 miles, with an EaO filter. Which car would you buy?


The one that didn't have Edge in it!!

 

[Artem]

Obviously we'd all go for car A.

but your average Joe wouldn't be able to tell the difference and would buy either car.

Isn't the whole point of doing extended OCIs is to save money? I'm personally not concerned about the resale value from a clean engine point of view. It will work fine regardless so why spend more money on unnecessary maintenance when you really don't have too?

Continuing on your Example above, if both cars are Bimmers and the factory OCI is 15k (which according to BMW will keep your engine spotless for 200k using their house brand of oil and filters built by the lowest bidder) and car B. was using a higher quality oil / filter combo and the UOA wasn't showing excessive wear as a result (UOA take with a dash of salt) then car #2's engine is in no worse condition then car #1. (which was getting more frequent OCIs then required)

We have no proven data from engines which saw 15k OCIs showing that the interval is too long and the engine suffered more wear as a result (not looking at cleanliness, which doesn't mean much) so there's no way of knowing for sure (there are plenty of BMW owners which follow the 15K rule and their engines are clean)

 

[Pablo]

The obvious implication is that there would be more wear and filth in a SSO engine. So, exactly - no proven data. I find this a red herring - I have been doing extended intervals in my engines since 1996. My engines are spotless, so that bird just shat in the bushes.

In reality - with a used car, the least of the issues is 10K with M1 or 20K with SSO - especially in a car with 15K recommended OCI's. I can tell you one thing - the Exxx filled engines running just over the recommended OCI are filthy, but maybe that doesn't mean much. No I am NOT attacking Exxx, I just see what I see when I go about my daily business.