AMSOIL Signature Series ATF Shift feel

[meborder]

I have to say, I'm not sure what to think.

I had my transmission flushed with Amsoil Signature Series ATF and the shift feel is softer than I expected.

When you put the truck in gear the engagement is much softer than it was before the flush. Same with the Torque Converter clutch engagement.

Not sure what to think. If this were a crown vic or town car, I'd say it is so silky smooth that it is perfect. But this is my truck, and I need to know that the transmission is shifting in a very positive manner - especially when towing.

the old mindset is that soft shifts = heat, and when towing heat is the enemy. I used the Amsoil because I thought it would be the best medicine for a hard working transmission, but the silky soft/smooth shifts are not what I expected, or what I really wanted in a truck..... especially one that gets used to its full potential.

not sure what to think ....

2006 expedition, 4R75E, 170,000 miles.

 

[gregk24]

I'd like to think that there's nothing to worry about as new fluid = happy transmission, but soft shifts are not good. I would be tempted to change it to OEM fluid...but some say I am paranoid

 

[Dave Hess]

Drive it for 10K miles and see what happens. If still the same switch back to factory spec ATF.

 

[ford46guy]

I have a thread going about Ford Transmission Fluids. You are speced for Mercon V, and usually synthetic fluids have lower viscosity. Eventually the Mercon V shears down to that viscosity, so the shifting is probably in spec. There are other benefits though for synthetic, although Ford does not think so, they suggest a more frequent OCI.

A conversation with someone technical at Ford told me ONLY to use Licensed (Not "recommended" fluids) for these Transmissions, preferably the Motorcraft product. In their opinion it is so application specific that it exceeds any synthetic fluid on the market for our transmissions (of course your kid is the smartest!). It is good stuff though.

Take that with a grain of salt though.

 

[Kuato]

^this makes sense....after 170k, the old fluid could have been shifting harshly and the trans is back to normal....I would drive it awhile and see how it does.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Drive it for 10K miles and see what happens. If still the same switch back to factory spec ATF.


Why so long?

 

[Fsharp]

It may have more friction modifiers than the Ford fluid or the old fluid's were broken down. Friction modifiers may actually reduce clutch wear by being in between the transmission's clutch plates when they engage, absorbing a lot of the speed difference before actual metal on clutch contact occurs. They also can increase the static friction and therefore holding power of the clutches

The amsoil atf seems like good stuff. I'd leave it in there and enjoy the smooth shifts. It's not a low viscosity fluid either if you're worried about that.

 

[CT8]

Soft shifting may ease the shock loading .

 

[meborder]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
I'd like to think that there's nothing to worry about as new fluid = happy transmission, but soft shifts are not good. I would be tempted to change it to OEM fluid...but some say I am paranoid

As an absolute last resort, I could do that. I debated long and hard before ponying up the $160 for the fluid alone.

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Drive it for 10K miles and see what happens. If still the same switch back to factory spec ATF.


It's been 700-800 miles already since I had it done. It did take some time to feel a distinct difference from the old fluid, but gradually it settled in to its current state.

Originally Posted By: ford46guy
I have a thread going about Ford Transmission Fluids. You are speced for Mercon V, and usually synthetic fluids have lower viscosity. Eventually the Mercon V shears down to that viscosity, so the shifting is probably in spec. There are other benefits though for synthetic, although Ford does not think so, they suggest a more frequent OCI.

A conversation with someone technical at Ford told me ONLY to use Licensed (Not "recommended" fluids) for these Transmissions, preferably the Motorcraft product. In their opinion it is so application specific that it exceeds any synthetic fluid on the market for our transmissions (of course your kid is the smartest!). It is good stuff though.

Take that with a grain of salt though.


I have been following that thread. Doing what research I could before buying it appears that the Amsoil would easily pass the mercon V tests if they were to submit it for certification.

The viscosity is listed at 7.5 cP @100c which matches the motorcraft fluid pretty closely, the difference being the amsoil is supposed to shear significantly less over the life of the fluid.

I'm a bit of a skeptic on the superiority of the motorcraft fluid, though. It's good for sure, but anything that ford licenses is supposed to be equally as good. Or so thats how I took it.

Originally Posted By: Kuato
^this makes sense....after 170k, the old fluid could have been shifting harshly and the trans is back to normal....I would drive it awhile and see how it does.


Just to be clear, the fluid was changed about 60k miles ago but there were some signs that the fluid was getting worn out.

Originally Posted By: Fsharp
It may have more friction modifiers than the Ford fluid or the old fluid's were broken down. Friction modifiers may actually reduce clutch wear by being in between the transmission's clutch plates when they engage, absorbing a lot of the speed difference before actual metal on clutch contact occurs. They also can increase the static friction and therefore holding power of the clutches

The amsoil atf seems like good stuff. I'd leave it in there and enjoy the smooth shifts. It's not a low viscosity fluid either if you're worried about that.


Had not considered that the FM could be reducing clutch wear. I guess that could make sense. I dont think it is viscosity relates, I did check that before buying it, but rather different frictional properties in the fluid. But I hadn't considered that a fluid which absorbs some of the energy could be saving the clutches. And if the fluid can handle the additional shear, then there is nothing lost but shift quality could be gained.

Interesting.

I guess I was surprised by the noticeably different shift feel.

 

[Trav]

I have used Amsoil ATF in that transmission and many others, the only way to know for sure if there is real difference is by looking at the shift times and slippage with an advanced scan tool. Just because it "feels" softer doesn't mean the shift times are longer and slipping more.
I find the ATF is good for a few ms over the ATL, in a 4t65E, the ATL (dex VI) is around 0.25 and higher viscosity ATF (dex III) is between 0.18 and 0.23 in the same unit both new fluids.

I suspect the higher viscosity ATF increases line pressure slightly over the ATL making the unit shift quicker and being a full synthetic remains that way longer without shearing down like a mineral based fluid. I wouldn't sweat it for a second you have IMHO one of the best ATF fluids on the market today in there, its probably shifting just like it is supposed to.
I use the ATF in all sort of stuff and never had a failure or burnt fluid in any unit including Honda problem units, Toyota, Subaru, GM, Ford. I do not use it to replace ATF+4 or most Euro fluids unless the car uses a GM box.

 

[ford46guy]

Maybe pose the question to Amsoil Customer service. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, like others said Amsoil is very good stuff, maybe if I didn't have rust on my cars I would use it.

But if you want the 'new car smell' type shift you should stick with Licensed Mercon V. One of the criteria is shift feel in various Ford transmissions. Not sure if Amsoil has a Mercon license number, to make it "Ford Kosher." That does not mean it is not a great fluid that will protect your trans.

For me the price I got for Motorcraft MV was less than Maxlife. Only thing less was Supertech, and I didn't feel comfortable with that even though it is actually licensed. Amsoil is very costly, but may be worth it if you tow or plan to keep it forever.

Also, Forscan may be able to show some advanced transmission parameters for ford. Not sure about exact shift times, but you can see when the gears are commanded to change and things like slippage.

 

[BigJakeChevy]

Originally Posted By: meborder
I have to say, I'm not sure what to think.

I had my transmission flushed with Amsoil Signature Series ATF and the shift feel is softer than I expected.

When you put the truck in gear the engagement is much softer than it was before the flush. Same with the Torque Converter clutch engagement.

Not sure what to think. If this were a crown vic or town car, I'd say it is so silky smooth that it is perfect. But this is my truck, and I need to know that the transmission is shifting in a very positive manner - especially when towing.

the old mindset is that soft shifts = heat, and when towing heat is the enemy. I used the Amsoil because I thought it would be the best medicine for a hard working transmission, but the silky soft/smooth shifts are not what I expected, or what I really wanted in a truck..... especially one that gets used to its full potential.

not sure what to think ....

2006 expedition, 4R75E, 170,000 miles.


Which type did you use? The Red cap or Blue cap?

 

[meborder]

All good info.

I used the correct fluid. ATF not ATL, so red cap. Mercon V not LV compatible.

I guess I dont know what that "new car shift" feels like, or should feel like

. I got it at 104k and had the trans flushed at 109k with whatever my mechanic uses. Presumably BG synthetic, but not exactly sure what he uses. So my only basis of comparison is the original fluid with 109k on it and the mystery fluid for the last 60k.

It does feel different... Very smooth, ill grant it that much.

Just want to get another 40k miles, which should be easy, but I do use it like a truck. Hoping to get some miles on the camper this year, so that's why I went with the AMSOIL Signature Series. Just didn't expect such a noticeable difference in shift feel.... Just surprising....

Oh, and it has rust ... So you can't use that as an excuse

 

[BigJakeChevy]

Originally Posted By: meborder
All good info.

I used the correct fluid. ATF not ATL, so red cap. Mercon V not LV compatible.

I guess I dont know what that "new car shift" feels like, or should feel like

. I got it at 104k and had the trans flushed at 109k with whatever my mechanic uses. Presumably BG synthetic, but not exactly sure what he uses. So my only basis of comparison is the original fluid with 109k on it and the mystery fluid for the last 60k.

It does feel different... Very smooth, ill grant it that much.

Just want to get another 40k miles, which should be easy, but I do use it like a truck. Hoping to get some miles on the camper this year, so that's why I went with the AMSOIL Signature Series. Just didn't expect such a noticeable difference in shift feel.... Just surprising....

Oh, and it has rust ... So you can't use that as an excuse

Are you able to check the trans temp? If it is slipping to much i would imagine you'd have more heat than before if it is a problem? Other wise ya maybe just not use to how its suppose to feel. LoL. I agree with you i like to feel my truck shift nice a postive. I put the Torque Drive in my 4L60e and it shifts very strong and positive.

 

[Brybo86]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
I would be tempted to change it to OEM fluid...but some say I am paranoid

Nonsense .
I have drained and filled my 2008 Accord with Amsoil ATF every 30 since I got it 90K miles ago it shifts like the day I bought it.
And I have UOA every 30k to prove it.

You gotta stop spreading the Z1 and DW1 are gods nonsense.

 

[CT8]

Soft shift and slipping is two different things. The soft shift is due to the friction modifiers, the slipping id due to not enough line pressure if that is what it is still called.

 

[meborder]

Originally Posted By: BigJakeChevy

Are you able to check the trans temp? If it is slipping to much i would imagine you'd have more heat than before if it is a problem? Other wise ya maybe just not use to how its suppose to feel. LoL. I agree with you i like to feel my truck shift nice a postive. I put the Torque Drive in my 4L60e and it shifts very strong and positive.


transmission temps this time of year struggle to exceed 125°F. If I sit and idle it long enough it will get up to 150°F, but it starts dropping pretty quickly once you start driving again.

I also upgraded my cooler at the same time I did the flush, but I won't know until summer how that affects towing.

It doesn't feel like it is slipping in any way. it's just not that positive "thud" when you shift into gear or when the torque converter locks.

silky smooth is probably the best way to describe it... just not what I expected.

 

[meborder]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have used Amsoil ATF in that transmission and many others, the only way to know for sure if there is real difference is by looking at the shift times and slippage with an advanced scan tool. Just because it "feels" softer doesn't mean the shift times are longer and slipping more.
I find the ATF is good for a few ms over the ATL, in a 4t65E, the ATL (dex VI) is around 0.25 and higher viscosity ATF (dex III) is between 0.18 and 0.23 in the same unit both new fluids.

I suspect the higher viscosity ATF increases line pressure slightly over the ATL making the unit shift quicker and being a full synthetic remains that way longer without shearing down like a mineral based fluid. I wouldn't sweat it for a second you have IMHO one of the best ATF fluids on the market today in there, its probably shifting just like it is supposed to.
I use the ATF in all sort of stuff and never had a failure or burnt fluid in any unit including Honda problem units, Toyota, Subaru, GM, Ford. I do not use it to replace ATF+4 or most Euro fluids unless the car uses a GM box.


Thanks for your detailed response...

curious, you say I have "one of the best"
what others do you consider "among the best"?
do you have one you think is "the best"?

just curious on your opinion.
thanks!

 

[Trav]

It is IMO the best for some applications including yours and GM units but not necessarily for all makes and transmissions. There are other top shelf fluids but I have had nothing less than stellar service from the Amsoil ATF and ATL so I have no reason to mess with what works.
I put ATF in a Honda unit that had been replaced twice under warranty and at over 100K on the unit it was still cherry red and working flawlessly, they don't need to sell me on the stuff.

BTW I just didn't leave it in there 100K I checked the fluid every 20K or so , it looked so good I didn't see any benefit to changing it. I did change it out for no other reason than feeling good at 150K, it now has 197K on that unit and its perfect. I would have to say that's as close as it gets to a lifetime fluid.

 

[Kuato]

Any updates?