Amsoil S2K 0W30, 2002 Jeep 4.0, 3010/6Months

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I know I have probably committed a cardinal sin but I changed my Amsoil S2K oil after only 3K miles / 6 months AND I had a bypass filter. It was my first run using this oil so I didn’t feel too comfortable using it for a year or more. Also this was my first ‘extended’ interval, ever. I was your typical 3K/3-months type of guy, until I stumbled in to this site. So for me, to even go 6 months, was a big leap of faith. I’ll do better next time. A brief history on the Jeep: It’s a 2002, 4.0 Jeep Wrangler. I did its first oil change at 2K miles (factory oil) and then put it on a strict Mobil1 10W30 diet until the odometer read 10K miles (with a Mobil1 oil filter and OEM air filter). At 10K I switched to Amsoil 0W30 (TSO) and added the Amsoil dual remote bypass filter (BMK-13). What can I say; I got sucked in to the whole Amsoil marketing and fell victim to the Amsoil juggernaut [Wink] (just joking, I actually like their products and most of my car runs off them: T-case, diffs, PS).
  • Makeup oil: 1/2 quart – It never did this with [email protected]
  • Oil sump with the new bypass configuration: 7.5 quarts (up from 6)
  • Oil filter(s): Amsoil bypass (BE-90) & Amsoil full-flow (SDF-15)
  • Air filter: OEM (paper) – I tried the Amsoil one but the fit was really bad
  • Type of driving: 90% city, 9% highway and 1% off-road – Most of my driving consisted of short trips, in the range of two to three miles per trip.
  • Temperature range: 30F to 90F (from July 03 to Jan 04)
  • Driving style: I go pretty easy on it even though it does see the occasional redline and off roading. I also let it warm up 3 to 5 min before driving it. Shifts are usually at or under 3K RPMs.
  • Fuel cleaner: Single treatment of Redline fuel cleaner for this OCI
My only concern was that once I installed the bypass filter kit, due to its high positioning, the oil pressure now takes 3 to 4 seconds to register; before it was instantaneous. The Lead seems ~avg. so I guess I should not worry about it too much. Starting Feb, the car will sit in a garage 5 days a week and I will only use it on the weekends. I’m thinking of switching to the Amsoil’s S3K 5w30 or Delvac1 for that reason. Is that a good idea? Here is the Blackstone report - I also did a VOA on the Mopar tranny fluid; it’s in the VOA section. I had to find out what was in it; it was keeping me up at night [Smile] . Please check it out. First column is my sample / second is the universal avg for 4K miles
  • ALUMINUM 1 / 4
  • CHROMIUM 1 / 1
  • IRON 12 / 34
  • COPPER 5 / 8
  • LEAD 6 / 6
  • TIN 1 / 1
  • MOLYBDENUM 9 / 38
  • NICKEL 1 / 1
  • MANGANESE 0 / 1
  • SILVER 0 / 0
  • TITANIUM 0 / 0
  • POTASSIUM 0 / 2
  • BORON 42 / 44
  • SILICON 11 / 12
  • SODIUM 1 / 8
  • CALCIUM 2610 / 1777
  • MAGNESIUM 722 / 377
  • PHOSPHORUS 961 / 741
  • ZINC 1155 / 891
  • BARIUM 0 / 1
Here is what Blackstone had to say:
quote:
Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type of engine after about 4000 miles run on the oil. Your oil was in use 3010 miles, and we found all wear from the engine to be well below average levels and in the correct balance to show normal mechanical parts inside. Air filtration (see silicon) looks okay. Your bypass filter is doing a nice job -- insolubles read below out limit of 0.3%. The TBN read 6.0, showing plenty of active additive remaining. You'll have no trouble going longer on the oil. We suggest trying 4500 miles next time.
Isn't the PHOSPHORUS a bit lowfor this oil?
 

wrangler

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Just to clarify, the car had 13,010 miles when the sample was taken.
 

KW

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Three thousand miles in six months. You should have no problem at all with annual oil changes. Especially with a by-pass set up. My 4.0 takes a few seconds to read oil pressure on start up even with a 0W oil. I think the sender might just be a little way up the oil path which makes the reading seem slower than it is.
 

Jay

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The wear metals look very good--especially considering that this engine typically shows a lot of wear metals and that it's very young.
quote:
...My only concern was that once I installed the bypass filter kit, due to its high positioning, the oil pressure now takes 3 to 4 seconds to register; before it was instantaneous...
That can't be good. If it really takes that much longer to build oil pressure the bypass filter is probably doing more harm than good.
 
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You need to relocate the dual remote mount so that it's LOWER than the spin on filter adapter. This way the oil lines will stay full of oil after shutdown and you won't get this pressure lag on startup .... Lead is elevated - it should be 1-2 ppm with the bypass filter and 3000 miles. The main/rod bearings are in contact with the crank journals for those 3-4 seconds you mentioned. No short term damage here but not a good long term practice. If you can't relocate the filter kit, I'd install it on another vehicle or sell it back to the dealer you got it from ...If you removed the bypass and simply used the SDF-42 full flow filter, you'd see less lead than this. Ted K. Dixie Synthetics
 

wrangler

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quote:
Did you notice any difference in engine/oil temps?
No diff in engine temps and I even added Reline's WaterWetter. But thn again I only have a stock temp gauge which never moves from 210F.
 

wrangler

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quote:
You need to relocate the dual remote mount so that it's LOWER than the spin on filter adapter. This way the oil lines will stay full of oil after shutdown and you won't get this pressure lag on startup ....
Ted, moving it is not really an option. It took alot of work to built a custom frame... and I don't wanted mounted under the car (for off-road use) I will probably add a pre-luber like the accusump sometime soon... http://www.accusump.com/acc_tech_accusump.html Thanks everyone.
 
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Ted, I am with you on this one!! That is an insane amount of wear for a unit with the bypass system. I am glad you said something because I was going to. You have much more credability with Amsoil products! My Dodge had instant oil pressure and had 100psi within 13 seconds year round. 3-4 seconds of prime time is not good! Do you think he should send his filter off for UFA? Maybe ferrographic as well?
 
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Has anyone else noticed how Amsoil's TBN has been nosediving right off the get go lately? I'm starting to get concerned about that. [Confused]
 
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A Blackstone TBN of 6 after 6 months isn't so bad. I also agree that a remote filter should be set up to minimize drainback and the filters themselves should have a combined "resistance to flow" as close to zero as possible (ie the pressure delta should be negligible, both at start and while running). I have a dual remote on my old Volvo, lower down and BOTH full flow. If I was to do a bypass I would do a stand alone, tap off a safe pressure spot and return low pressure high side. The dual remote by-pass, I no longer sell. Bob's tests scare me, even though I have doubts about his set-up, but cases like your and some others, just tell me the design is not proper. All that said it's not like your wear metals are bad or anything. Some oils will get numbers like that just sitting in an engine unused, car outside for six months with season changes (condensation) only! [ January 20, 2004, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
 

wrangler

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It seems all the reports on this site for 4.0 Jeeps (except one, which is one data point and a trend does not make) that use 10W30 have iron in the 30’s and 40’s. Up to now all which used a ‘40’ weight have much lower numbers. Ted, do you think if I had no bypass on it the iron would be in the 30's or 40’s (which are normal results for this engine). Is this a function of film thickness or strength? I would figure that the S2k has a higher film strength, better wear metal suspension capabilities, better detergents… than Mobil1 0W40. But the UOA results don’t seem to back this up.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Pablo: A Blackstone TBN of 6 after 6 months isn't so bad.
Not trying to put down a good product Pablo, I just bought two gallons of it last week. But this one dropping 5 points in 3k and 3MP's dropping 7.4 in 2k just causes a little concern over here. Sorry just trying to learn by asking dumb questions hehe. [Smile]
 
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I have the same pressure lag at startup on My 2003 Mercury Marauder. 4.6 DOHC. My setup is also mounted higher than the spin on filter location. I'm going to install a check valve in the line to the filter setup to keep the oil in the lines from siphoning back through the engine. Hoping this works, and believe it will. Also, I think this oil actually NEEDS to be run for extended drains, ESPECIALLY while running a by-pass filter setup. If you look at the UOA's on this oil, it is ALWAYS better with more milage on it. [ January 22, 2004, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: 1 BAD 03 MM ]
 
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JWrench, 3 MP is also using Blackstone, but yes that one did take a nosedive. Blackstone's TBN version seems to still have enough reserve alakalinity at 1.5-2. (which is indeed interesting compared to OAI, etc) Per Blackstone:
quote:
The TBN read 6.0, showing plenty of active additive remaining.
 

wrangler

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quote:
I'm going to install a check valve in the line to the filter setup to keep the oil in the lines from siphoning back through the engine.
1 BAD 03 MM, I'm assuming you are talking about a one-way valve. If so, I thought about it and it will not work. You will have to install 2 valves (one for each line). Now the problem is that the cracking-pressure required for the avg. one way valve is about 25 lbs. It will take a few seconds just for your oil pump to build enough pressure to break the seal so the results will be the same. Now if you use two valves, well then should equate to 50lbs which means your pump will probably never break the seal so you will kill your engine. The only solution that I have thought of is a pre-oiler. But that will run you about $500 plus a few hours of your time.
 
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Wrangler, Bypass filters used in gas engines don't have that much effect on iron levels ....Without the bypass filter and the extra sump capacity - which reduces all your wear metal concentrations - I'd expect iron wear after 3000 miles to be 15-18 ppm in this engine. The service life of Amsoil products is One Year or xx,xxx miles - whichever comes FIRST. The time limit is MUCH more important that the mileage limit in almost every application I've seen, for a variety of technical reasons... If you ran this engine 12,000 highway miles in six months, the TBN would actually be higher than in this case. Driving conditions are EVERYTHING when it comes to the rate of oil degradation, no matter what oil you use or how much it costs [Wink] Ted
 
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wrangler, I've spent alot of time researching this one. Here is a link to the valve I'm going to use. http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/EPP/EPPFSC/ChkVlv.html I called and found this out: Cracking pressure .25psi Sealing pressure .50psi I'm also pretty sure you only need one on the out to the by-pass, as this will hold what's in the line back to the engine. Sort of like the ADBV does for the filter. Anyone think this won't work?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: You need to relocate the dual remote mount so that it's LOWER than the spin on filter adapter. This way the oil lines will stay full of oil after shutdown and you won't get this pressure lag on startup .... Lead is elevated - it should be 1-2 ppm with the bypass filter and 3000 miles. The main/rod bearings are in contact with the crank journals for those 3-4 seconds you mentioned. No short term damage here but not a good long term practice. If you can't relocate the filter kit, I'd install it on another vehicle or sell it back to the dealer you got it from ...If you removed the bypass and simply used the SDF-42 full flow filter, you'd see less lead than this. Ted K. Dixie Synthetics
Boy do I dig reading posts from Tooslick. Always informative, to the point and professional. [Cheers!] I hope Big Al knows what a pro and gentleman he has there. Mikep
 
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