Amsoil HDD 5w-30 at 46K; '05 Dmax

[m37charlie]

Doug,

The Mercedes 228.x specifications are on p.46 of
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/general/oil_rating_info.pdf
You can see that for all 3 tests 228.5 is more stringent than 228.1,3 on "piston cleanliness".
Virtually every oil on the 228.5 list is Grp.III, with 2 or 3 Grp.IV. If we could agree that Grp.III is synthetic (?!?), then is this correlation coincidence?
Of course this does not prove a causal relationship. And piston dome cleanliness is not ring groove deposits. But both relate to exposure of oil to extreme conditions.

Charlie

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Pablo - A Poster said this:
"Ring pack cleanliness issues are not negated by syn use either"

Pablo - You responded with this "- they most certainly ARE. Synthetic oils greatly reduce gunk on rings."

Can you provide any constructive evidence that two similar specification lubricants - one a synthetic and the other a mineral - where your comments can be quantified?

IMHE two such PCMOs or HDEOs meeting similar specs would perform at almost the same levels of ring pack cleanliness! I have certainly not seen ring pack deposits negated by a synthetic lubricant (in a general sense)


Doug - with all your tear downs you have never looked at the piston rings? Interesting. Absolutely synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Redline) ring packs are much cleaner - I have seen this. Do I have an Australian Government certified paper on the subject? Of course not, and I fully was expecting you to pop into this thread and ask ME for evidence. (I rarely (never?) have actually seen you challenge anyone else for data.) But since you ask, in your ever so nice way, I can give you this:

Sequence IIIF Tests

Quote:
The Sequence IIIF test is a stringent API SL, ILSAC GF-3 test designed to measure oil thickening and piston deposits in high temperature service....Even after being subjected to the Sequence IIIF test for three times the standard test length, the pistons lubricated by synthetic motor oil show minimal deposits

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
charlie - HDEOs went down this track many many years ago. Many of the best performing lubricants are indeed mineral lubricants - Shell's Rotella, Delvac 1300 and etc.

We see more and more Grp 3 lubricants meeting and surpassing synthetics as we once knew them. Spec for spec compliance it is unlikely the difference is measurable - IMHO the performance is in the additive package

Pablo - Of course you never look at pistons and such at teardown.......................................... We are only interested in the pinion gears....................!

Oh, where is the evidence?

 

[Pablo]

Here's an Aus reference: http://www.mobil1.com.au/why/outstanding.aspx

 

[ihookem1]

Can I just ask one more question? If the oil is bad why did analysis say I can keep using it but resample in 7k mi. Wouldn't they know better than have me keep using it? If they don't know any better, why trust oil samples at all? Yes,the additives are on the low side but obviously still good enough to keep soot suspended to keep sludge from forming in their expert opinion. I am going to give them a call in a few days and ask the tech a bunch of questions and take his advice.

 

[Billy_D]

How many months the oil was in service?

 

[ihookem1]

I put it in 12-5-07. Just under 2 yrs., put 5-6 make up qts. changed filters 3 times with Amsoil filters rated @ 98% down to 15 microns, supposedly that's a good filter. Also used Amsoil air filters and cleaned it once. Might go back to regular paper filters soon. I'm not too sure about vaccuming a filter.

 

[Pablo]

2 years, that is a long time....still your:

fuel. .4%
soot .4%
water .1%
vis@100c 12.8
tbn 3.8
oxida 14
nitra 20

All seem to be nominal, if not excellent. If after all this you still have some worries, do a couple 10 OCI's, have a beer, and relax.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Pablo - Not to disagree with you, but some Aussie wines are nice too!!!

I must admit I like a Millers from time to time...........

 

[ihookem1]

Thanks Pablo, some other things that need to be considered. I drive it at least 5 times a week, 40 mi. to work, then back. It's almost all highway at 62 mph. avr. I do go to the cabin 10 times a yr. 243 mi. and stop a few times then back. I almost always have 500 lbs. or less in the box. I very seldom tow and when I do it is only about 3000 lbs total @ 62 mph. It stays in the garage where it's 20* warmer in winter.The truck has an easy life. The oil shows it too. Maybe this will clear some things up. My point i guess is to show how long good oil will last and our country can easily cut our motor oil consumption in half. I always thought we change oil way too often and good oil goes down the drain, in the rivers, landfills and even gets burned sometimes. Good synthetics are the way to go for now, that may change soon too. Thanks for the replies, some were insulting but guys like me do their own thing to find a better way and prove skeptics wrong if I think they are, and I think 3k and even 5k oil changes are just a shame! I hope I changed peoples minds about oil changes. Even 10k dino changes seem ok these days.

 

[addyguy]

This is a very interesting UOA. One of my favourite UOA threads on this site is a guy who went 25k miles on HDD in a Cavalier Ecotec, and his results were almost the same as yours:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=252533&page=1

Amsoil HDD 5W-3 is definetly a great oil for extended drains.

 

[bbslider001]

Ahhh Pablo, we can always count on you to give us the "non-biased" Amsoil opinion and rebuttals for the extended us of it. (insert rolling eyes here)I am just wondering...is Amsoil EVER bad?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: cowhorse01
Ahhh Pablo, we can always count on you to give us the "non-biased" Amsoil opinion and rebuttals for the extended us of it. (insert rolling eyes here)I am just wondering...is Amsoil EVER bad?


Not sure where you are going. Did I write something false? Wrong? Sure - people have used the SM oils for racing, etc and said Amsoil is bad. People use it for 3K and dump by their own choice and get scolded here. People have hated and loved the MT oils, for example. But used properly, I've never actually seen Amsoil be "bad" if that's what you mean.

Listen, I'm not a yes man here. If someone says something that is just not correct, I'm not going to agree to make the folks happy, suit my needs or the other way around. I'm not holding my opinion back for the masses. In this case, what should have I said that is "unbiased"? Is there something I could have written that satisfied you in particular? Would it be right for me to say "Amsoil HDD sucked eggs at 46K" (when the evidence says otherwise)?

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Dollar for Dollar,

It would make more since to make your OCI 25K with the Eao going the full OCI. You might have 1-2 quarts make up oil with what you have stated.

5-6 quarts of make up and 3 filter changes is a pain in the buttox!

Can you scan or copy the original report from the analysis company for our reading pleasure? Most these analysis company's now send the report via e-mail anyway.....

 

[ihookem1]

I will give it a try, I don't know how to do it yet but will find out.

 

[ihookem1]

I talked to the old friend that got me started on Amsoil yesterday. I asked him if he ever changed to oil on his truck. He said no. I asked well, how many miles are on the oil now? ( Amsoil 5w30 hdd. He said he had 124k on the oil. The truck is an 01 Ford 3/4 ton 7.3 diesel. He isn't kidding me niether. 46k doesn't sound so long now. I wonder if this oil could last the life of the truck. No bypass neither just Amsoil filters and makeup oil. With bypass filters I think it could last the life of a puckup.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

This type of information on extended OCI's are snake-oil story's with out a scanned UOA to back up the claim/s. I would venture if he/you are changing the filters and adding make-up oil needed your only adding total sump volume out every 20K or so.

I would rather do a complete OCI after I find the best trend UOA for maximum miles with protection values still alive and well. The fuel dilution and solids and acids are too high after you hit a certain point in a life of an oil.

 

[Billy_D]

Originally Posted By: ihookem1
...I talked to the old friend that got me started on Amsoil yesterday. I asked him if he ever changed to oil on his truck. He said no. I asked well, how many miles are on the oil now? ( Amsoil 5w30 hdd. He said he had 124k on the oil. The truck is an 01 Ford 3/4 ton 7.3 diesel. He isn't kidding me niether. 46k doesn't sound so long now...


Your friend is out of his mind, and he is abusing his truck.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: Billy007
Originally Posted By: ihookem1
...I talked to the old friend that got me started on Amsoil yesterday. I asked him if he ever changed to oil on his truck. He said no. I asked well, how many miles are on the oil now? ( Amsoil 5w30 hdd. He said he had 124k on the oil. The truck is an 01 Ford 3/4 ton 7.3 diesel. He isn't kidding me niether. 46k doesn't sound so long now...


Your friend is out of his mind, and he is abusing his truck.


That sort of "program" is only appropriate if he has either bypass filters or a centrifuge, and he changes all the filters/centrifuge capsule at "appropriate" intervals, which will remove tiny particles too small to get trapped by the main full flow filter; and gives an opportunity to add new makeup oil with new additives.
Given the above conditions, Mercedes allows OCIs in heavy over the road trucks up to 160Kkm, using a MB228.5 oil.
It doesn't sound like he is doing that.

Charlie

 

[addyguy]

Originally Posted By: ihookem1
I talked to the old friend that got me started on Amsoil yesterday. I asked him if he ever changed to oil on his truck. He said no. I asked well, how many miles are on the oil now? ( Amsoil 5w30 hdd. He said he had 124k on the oil. The truck is an 01 Ford 3/4 ton 7.3 diesel. He isn't kidding me niether. 46k doesn't sound so long now. I wonder if this oil could last the life of the truck. No bypass neither just Amsoil filters and makeup oil. With bypass filters I think it could last the life of a puckup.


Not quite the same, but didn't Amsoil do a tear-down on a rig that went 409k miles on one of their 15W-40's, with no actual 'oil change'?

Yeah, it had by-pass and probably lots of top-off, but still....shows Amsoil can do it......