Amsoil Filter Disappeared (Toyota 2.4L)
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Originally Posted By: odessit
Thanks!
benjamming - then EaO9 is also included with EaO10 since Amsoil changed recommendation on usage.
The only difference being is that they've just eliminated the EaO10 ..but only alter the recommendation for the EaO09 and the EaO57 (I use that on my wife's jeep) ..and only on Toyota installations.
My guess is that the EaO10 just didn't represent enough coverage to justify its continued availability. The EaO09 and (certainly) the EaO57 probably cover a much broader application list. That's just my speculation.
Thanks!
benjamming - then EaO9 is also included with EaO10 since Amsoil changed recommendation on usage.
The only difference being is that they've just eliminated the EaO10 ..but only alter the recommendation for the EaO09 and the EaO57 (I use that on my wife's jeep) ..and only on Toyota installations.
My guess is that the EaO10 just didn't represent enough coverage to justify its continued availability. The EaO09 and (certainly) the EaO57 probably cover a much broader application list. That's just my speculation.
Originally Posted By: ryland
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I'm purchasing one for my Santa Fe at the moment.
We are going to have to see pics of that Steve!!
But of course.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I'm purchasing one for my Santa Fe at the moment.
We are going to have to see pics of that Steve!!
But of course.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
The Toyota engines run very small filters and seem to have lots of stuff for the filter to catch. Combining these two facts with an extended OCI is asking for trouble with any filter. This is why Amsoil stepped back and is now recommending OEM filter change intervals.
I agree with the small part but disagree with the lots of stuff. I just opened a filter (Purolater) after 5000 miles in my 1.8 L corolla (dino PYB oil), and there were very small amounts of carbon speckles inside. Now, if one had a neglected engine with sludge, that would be a different story.
The Toyota engines run very small filters and seem to have lots of stuff for the filter to catch. Combining these two facts with an extended OCI is asking for trouble with any filter. This is why Amsoil stepped back and is now recommending OEM filter change intervals.
I agree with the small part but disagree with the lots of stuff. I just opened a filter (Purolater) after 5000 miles in my 1.8 L corolla (dino PYB oil), and there were very small amounts of carbon speckles inside. Now, if one had a neglected engine with sludge, that would be a different story.
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What would it look like over up to 1 year or 25,000 miles?
There is NO OEM spec for an Amsoil product. There is no OEM spec for something like a PureOne or M1 oil filter. They're blanket offerings that "exceed the need" in a "one size fits all" type market approach. You won't see a GM TSB or see the owners manual say "if you use a PureOne filter it will do a better job" nor will it say, "If you use Amsoil as they direct, you can ignore the OEM recommendations". M1 is mostly the same deal. Outside of mostly OEM Euro engines (big sumps = long drains), they apply them over "generic" recommendations. EP 15k .. Know of any 15k OEM spec's that also don't specify the fluid too?
Toyota has proven to defeat this "exceeds the need" method. At least enough to require qualifications.
Someone doing 20k a year "may" be able to use an EaO filter. Those are mostly hollow miles. Someone doing 10k or less may not.
There is NO OEM spec for an Amsoil product. There is no OEM spec for something like a PureOne or M1 oil filter. They're blanket offerings that "exceed the need" in a "one size fits all" type market approach. You won't see a GM TSB or see the owners manual say "if you use a PureOne filter it will do a better job" nor will it say, "If you use Amsoil as they direct, you can ignore the OEM recommendations". M1 is mostly the same deal. Outside of mostly OEM Euro engines (big sumps = long drains), they apply them over "generic" recommendations. EP 15k .. Know of any 15k OEM spec's that also don't specify the fluid too?
Toyota has proven to defeat this "exceeds the need" method. At least enough to require qualifications.
Someone doing 20k a year "may" be able to use an EaO filter. Those are mostly hollow miles. Someone doing 10k or less may not.
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Originally Posted By: odessit
Thanks!
benjamming - then EaO9 is also included with EaO10 since Amsoil changed recommendation on usage.
Well, I got an answer. I don't know if I'm going to share it as it appeared from Amsoil tech.
Give me a few hours.
Thanks!
benjamming - then EaO9 is also included with EaO10 since Amsoil changed recommendation on usage.
Well, I got an answer. I don't know if I'm going to share it as it appeared from Amsoil tech.
Give me a few hours.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: odessit
Thanks!
benjamming - then EaO9 is also included with EaO10 since Amsoil changed recommendation on usage.
Well, I got an answer. I don't know if I'm going to share it as it appeared from Amsoil tech.
Give me a few hours.
Gary, any more info on these Amsoil filters or the answer from Amsoil tecj, I am curious in their response? I just purchased a 06 Scion tC (2.4L) and not sure what filter to use ? I was leaning towards the EaO10 but since that and the EaO09 are no longer available is there another "amsoil" Ea0 or SDF filter that I can use. I have a SDF57 in stock from when I had another Toyota (V6) but not sure if that will work since it is slightly bigger and the spring pressures are different. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: odessit
Thanks!
benjamming - then EaO9 is also included with EaO10 since Amsoil changed recommendation on usage.
Well, I got an answer. I don't know if I'm going to share it as it appeared from Amsoil tech.
Give me a few hours.
Gary, any more info on these Amsoil filters or the answer from Amsoil tecj, I am curious in their response? I just purchased a 06 Scion tC (2.4L) and not sure what filter to use ? I was leaning towards the EaO10 but since that and the EaO09 are no longer available is there another "amsoil" Ea0 or SDF filter that I can use. I have a SDF57 in stock from when I had another Toyota (V6) but not sure if that will work since it is slightly bigger and the spring pressures are different. Thanks.
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Gary;
The EaO09 will follow the EaO57 and EaO10 on the road to oblivion.
Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Byron Selbrede
Technical Services
The EaO09 will follow the EaO57 and EaO10 on the road to oblivion.
Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.
Sincerely,
Byron Selbrede
Technical Services
When I talked to tech, he basically told me to check the bulletin but also made a comment that Toyotas are dirty running engines. Dah! I thought they were the greenest company out there!
I will miss the EAO09 for small engines, Kawaski and Kohler.
I will miss the EAO09 for small engines, Kawaski and Kohler.
Originally Posted By: jerre310
When I talked to tech, he basically told me to check the bulletin but also made a comment that Toyotas are dirty running engines. Dah! I thought they were the greenest company out there!
I will miss the EAO09 for small engines, Kawaski and Kohler.
I just read the TSB.
Question is it ok to use EAO09, EAO10, EAO57 or SDF57 on the 2.4L engine as long as you change it after OEM recommended interval ? I have a surplus SDF57 I would like to use up on my next oil change on my 06 Scion tC (2.4L).
When I talked to tech, he basically told me to check the bulletin but also made a comment that Toyotas are dirty running engines. Dah! I thought they were the greenest company out there!
I will miss the EAO09 for small engines, Kawaski and Kohler.
I just read the TSB.
Question is it ok to use EAO09, EAO10, EAO57 or SDF57 on the 2.4L engine as long as you change it after OEM recommended interval ? I have a surplus SDF57 I would like to use up on my next oil change on my 06 Scion tC (2.4L).
StevieC: any pics of the bypass setup yet?
Haven't done it yet... Working on other experiments at the moment... Probably will do in the spring when it's warmer... It's too cold to be [censored] around with this stuff.
This week is nice but I promised my dad I would help him with finishing up the shed we built in the summer and help him aim the 10 Foot Aluminum satelite dish he just bought.
Word of advice... Never own a house in the country... There is toomuch to do much fun to be had.
This week is nice but I promised my dad I would help him with finishing up the shed we built in the summer and help him aim the 10 Foot Aluminum satelite dish he just bought.
Word of advice... Never own a house in the country... There is too
Well on problem I have with this is that the 2.4l 2AZ-FE is not prone to sludge at all. No one has had sludge issues wit this engine it a a great design!Look at my UOA and all the other's with this engine they all look great! Sure you ahve to keep an eye on insolubles if you want to go 10K or further and especially in the winter time as it will produce the insolubles a tad faster but not that fast??? IN fact as longas I have owned my car I have never once seen an oil light not even a flicker at start up.
Now one theory I have but I have no facts is that the oil pump is not that robust. I know that in the early engineering right ups on this engine Toyota was very proud of the oil pump in this application being low drag. It is driven by it's own sprocket by the main timing chain I believe. It is not the old school Chrylser copied G-Rotor design I love so much it is completly different looking. I cannot see the inside but it is it's own casting that bolts in kind of reminds me of the type of casting GM and FOrd used for years in terms of apperance. It is not at all the type most Toyota owners are used to. So what if this low drag oil pump has issues with high resistance????
Toyota already did some things I do not like in this engine. WHile I love almsot all the design idea that went into this motor it does have plastic gears meshing with steel gear for the ballance shafts!What if toyota use some lame plastic in the oil pump? Not fact just silly wild a## gues and speculation.
Also I thought I saw what looked like a bypass bolt on the end what if this oil pump bypass's back tothe sump if too much resistance is meet even before the oil filter bypass can open???? Just idea's mind you!
Now one theory I have but I have no facts is that the oil pump is not that robust. I know that in the early engineering right ups on this engine Toyota was very proud of the oil pump in this application being low drag. It is driven by it's own sprocket by the main timing chain I believe. It is not the old school Chrylser copied G-Rotor design I love so much it is completly different looking. I cannot see the inside but it is it's own casting that bolts in kind of reminds me of the type of casting GM and FOrd used for years in terms of apperance. It is not at all the type most Toyota owners are used to. So what if this low drag oil pump has issues with high resistance????
Toyota already did some things I do not like in this engine. WHile I love almsot all the design idea that went into this motor it does have plastic gears meshing with steel gear for the ballance shafts!What if toyota use some lame plastic in the oil pump? Not fact just silly wild a## gues and speculation.
Also I thought I saw what looked like a bypass bolt on the end what if this oil pump bypass's back tothe sump if too much resistance is meet even before the oil filter bypass can open???? Just idea's mind you!
just on the Amsoil site looking for a filter for my 2008 Prius ...
so, they've pulled the Toyota compatible filters across the board
anyone have the straight story?
i have two Priuses running SSO 0W30 with the appropriate EAO filters ... whattup?!
so, they've pulled the Toyota compatible filters across the board
anyone have the straight story?
i have two Priuses running SSO 0W30 with the appropriate EAO filters ... whattup?!
If Toyota's where so dirty running why do my two 10,000 mile oil change intervals UOA look so good? I did not change the filter and did not top off at all. In fact I am pretty sure I was using cheap filters as well not some fancy Eao high ticket filter!Look at the insanely good Tundra and Lexus V8 UOA's we have on here as well! If Toyota's where so dirty why have we not seen this outside of the sludge beasts that are no longer with us at all?!?!?!
I also used to be over the top interested in what was going through my engines filter and would cut open filters routinely. I often took them to work to put them under my microscope......or really GM's microscope...LOL On my own time though!
Something does not add up! Especialy when you look at how well these thigns do on a diet of M1 and cheap Walmart filter or Pure One's and everything in between!
Oh and I have never changed a filter more often then once per 6 months the same as I normaly change my oil. I do not go by miles. It is a good thing too I once put 15K on a combo of PP and VS when I was working at the dealership. Since it was a mix of oils I did not send it out for UOA but now I wish I had!
I also used to be over the top interested in what was going through my engines filter and would cut open filters routinely. I often took them to work to put them under my microscope......or really GM's microscope...LOL On my own time though!
Something does not add up! Especialy when you look at how well these thigns do on a diet of M1 and cheap Walmart filter or Pure One's and everything in between!
Oh and I have never changed a filter more often then once per 6 months the same as I normaly change my oil. I do not go by miles. It is a good thing too I once put 15K on a combo of PP and VS when I was working at the dealership. Since it was a mix of oils I did not send it out for UOA but now I wish I had!
Wel we have seen great resutls lately in some opacity testing of fitlers by PureOne very consistent performance. On top of that if you look at the independent testing on the back of the AC Delco UPF series of filter's the PurOnes did better then all other filters that where tested for flow except the UPS series. So independent test resutls from a competitor that show a good performance mark are usualy reliable it is the bad test results that come from competitors that need to be taken with a grain of salt.
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Quote:
If Toyota's where so dirty why have we not seen this outside of the sludge beasts that are no longer with us at all?!?!?!
John, these are the truisms that you can self create when you're only using yourself and your experiences as the all encompassing metric of reality. This is entirely different when you have products marketed to a vast span of users on a (basically) one year "set it and forget it" manner.
I mean, even Bill from Utah can't recognize his (over) one million mile personal experience as exceptional and thinks that anyone who can manage one part time job driving, a full time job working at something, and another part time job changing oil should be able to do the same.
If Toyota's where so dirty why have we not seen this outside of the sludge beasts that are no longer with us at all?!?!?!
John, these are the truisms that you can self create when you're only using yourself and your experiences as the all encompassing metric of reality. This is entirely different when you have products marketed to a vast span of users on a (basically) one year "set it and forget it" manner.
I mean, even Bill from Utah can't recognize his (over) one million mile personal experience as exceptional and thinks that anyone who can manage one part time job driving, a full time job working at something, and another part time job changing oil should be able to do the same.
The ridiculously small filters that Toyota specs for their vehicles is, IMO, the main culprit. A 51348 (PH 3614) sized filter for larger 4 an V6 engines will plug up over an extended OCI. The much larger PH 16a sized filters or the PH3600 may fit most toyota applications and prevent these issues. My old 2.2 litre 4 banger 1993 Plymouth Sundance specked a PH 16A.
Note: I am using Fram part numbers only because I don't know other filter manufacturers numbers.
Note: I am using Fram part numbers only because I don't know other filter manufacturers numbers.
hmmm
i was in pep boys looking at filters, looking for larger compatible filters than those specced
i'll post up pictures later
i was in pep boys looking at filters, looking for larger compatible filters than those specced
i'll post up pictures later
Originally Posted By: philobeddoe
just on the Amsoil site looking for a filter for my 2008 Prius ...
so, they've pulled the Toyota compatible filters across the board
anyone have the straight story?
i have two Priuses running SSO 0W30 with the appropriate EAO filters ... whattup?!
I called Amsoil today and spoke directly with their technical director regarding this issue. From our conversation I was told that Amsoil has experienced issues with sludge on some of the following Toyota engines which has also been identified by ConsumerReports.org as being problematic as well.
The problem engines include:
Lexus/Toyota 3.0L V-6
1997-2001 Lexus ES300
1999-2001 Lexus RX300
1997-2001 Toyota Camry
1997-2001 Toyota Avalon
1997-2001 Toyota Sienna
1999-2001 Toyota Camry Solara
2001 Toyota Highlander
Toyota 2.2L 4cyl
1997-2001 Toyota Camry
1996-1999 Toyota Celica
OEM Drain Interval
5,000 miles, or four months (severe)
7,500 miles (normal)
Also included is the Pontiac Vibe with Toyota 1.8L 4cyl.
As the story goes, with 25,000-mile extended drain intervals using Amsoil synthetic motor oil and EaO oil filters, some of the fore noted Toyota engines with sludge issues developed excessive amounts of sludge toward the end of their extended drain interval which resulted in loading up of the oil filter and leading to oil starvation. I was told that this was very “costly” for Amsoil as we may deduce that people lost engines and Amsoil had to fill warrantee claims.
Then we saw Amsoil TSB: FL-2009-05-01 come out which rolled back their recommended drain interval from 25,000-miles to the OEM recommended for these engines, and then eventually pulling the EaO9 and EaO10 oil filters off the market.
I was told that pulling the two filters off the market was a unanimous decision by Amsoil officials as it is a liability issue for the company. And even though theses two Toyota specific filters have worked fine in many other Toyota applications, they have chosen, at least for the time being, to play it safe and not offer them at all.
I further asked what could be the reason behind these Toyota engines being so much more prone to sludge issues than other models. He said that no one knows for sure at this point and that it’s been theorized it could have to do with emission requirements and newer Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) operation. In probing him further, he also noted that Toyota OEM oil filters have fairly loose filtering tolerances on them so that they pass a lot of the particles the Amsoil filter would otherwise pick up. This of course was tested by the late George Morrison who did a particle count comparison here on BITOG some years ago and found that the Amsoil EaO oil filter filtered some 93% better than the OEM Toyota filter in reducing the amount of fine particles in used engine oil.
At any rate, this is a fairly significant step by Amsoil who is generally quick to point out problems and concerns that arise within the industry and have stood their ground in this instance. Further, I think if demand and out cry is high enough, they may consider bring the two filters back, but under different recommendations. If anyone has used the now discontinued filters without issue, I'd consider calling, writing, or e-mailing Amsoil and letting them know you would like to see the filters made available again.
just on the Amsoil site looking for a filter for my 2008 Prius ...
so, they've pulled the Toyota compatible filters across the board
anyone have the straight story?
i have two Priuses running SSO 0W30 with the appropriate EAO filters ... whattup?!
I called Amsoil today and spoke directly with their technical director regarding this issue. From our conversation I was told that Amsoil has experienced issues with sludge on some of the following Toyota engines which has also been identified by ConsumerReports.org as being problematic as well.
The problem engines include:
Lexus/Toyota 3.0L V-6
1997-2001 Lexus ES300
1999-2001 Lexus RX300
1997-2001 Toyota Camry
1997-2001 Toyota Avalon
1997-2001 Toyota Sienna
1999-2001 Toyota Camry Solara
2001 Toyota Highlander
Toyota 2.2L 4cyl
1997-2001 Toyota Camry
1996-1999 Toyota Celica
OEM Drain Interval
5,000 miles, or four months (severe)
7,500 miles (normal)
Also included is the Pontiac Vibe with Toyota 1.8L 4cyl.
As the story goes, with 25,000-mile extended drain intervals using Amsoil synthetic motor oil and EaO oil filters, some of the fore noted Toyota engines with sludge issues developed excessive amounts of sludge toward the end of their extended drain interval which resulted in loading up of the oil filter and leading to oil starvation. I was told that this was very “costly” for Amsoil as we may deduce that people lost engines and Amsoil had to fill warrantee claims.
Then we saw Amsoil TSB: FL-2009-05-01 come out which rolled back their recommended drain interval from 25,000-miles to the OEM recommended for these engines, and then eventually pulling the EaO9 and EaO10 oil filters off the market.
I was told that pulling the two filters off the market was a unanimous decision by Amsoil officials as it is a liability issue for the company. And even though theses two Toyota specific filters have worked fine in many other Toyota applications, they have chosen, at least for the time being, to play it safe and not offer them at all.
I further asked what could be the reason behind these Toyota engines being so much more prone to sludge issues than other models. He said that no one knows for sure at this point and that it’s been theorized it could have to do with emission requirements and newer Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) operation. In probing him further, he also noted that Toyota OEM oil filters have fairly loose filtering tolerances on them so that they pass a lot of the particles the Amsoil filter would otherwise pick up. This of course was tested by the late George Morrison who did a particle count comparison here on BITOG some years ago and found that the Amsoil EaO oil filter filtered some 93% better than the OEM Toyota filter in reducing the amount of fine particles in used engine oil.
At any rate, this is a fairly significant step by Amsoil who is generally quick to point out problems and concerns that arise within the industry and have stood their ground in this instance. Further, I think if demand and out cry is high enough, they may consider bring the two filters back, but under different recommendations. If anyone has used the now discontinued filters without issue, I'd consider calling, writing, or e-mailing Amsoil and letting them know you would like to see the filters made available again.
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