Amsoil claims "First In Synthetics!", but.........

[oilboy123]

True that being the first in anything does not mean you are the best. But if you are the first in many things like Amsoil is that has to be considered. Not to say other companies did not do other things to help with moving this technology along.

Though some companies that started selling synthetics were poo pooing the idea of synthetic oil until they saw the profits that could be made. Then they jumped on the band wagon.

•First to develop an API-rated 100 percent synthetic motor oil.
•First to introduce the concept of "extended drain intervals" with a recommended 25,000-mile/1-year drain interval.
•First U.S. company to utilize the NOACK volatility test as a standard of performance excellence.
•First to produce synthetic motor oils for diesel engines, racing engines, turbo and marine engines.
•First to introduce synthetic oils that legitimately contribute to improving fuel efficiency.
•First to manufacture synthetic gear lube for automotive use.
•First to manufacture a 100:1 pre-mix synthetic 2-cycle oil.
•First to manufacture a synthetic automatic transmission fluid for automotive use.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Hethaerto - this may be of interest to you:
The German component in the production of synthetic lubricants is very complex but had its foundation in a real sense during the 1930s

In the early 1940s German Companies were heavily involved in the production of lubricants from: a)Coal Tar
b)Olefins via the Fischer-Tropsch process c)Rheinpreussen's naphthalene nucleus and paraffin side chain concept d)Esterification - adipic and methyl adipic acid esters were used and the alcohols required were derived via "Isobutyl Synthesis". The dire shortage of both acids and alcohols let to many compromises. Later the main alcohol source would be via "Synol" process which produces primary straight chain alcohol

The additives developed/used;
Oxidation Inhibitors
Corrosion Inhibitors
EP agents
Pour point depressants
VI enhancing agents

Multi-grade lubricants were also developed

Remenber that the German jet engines and Rocket systems required very special lubricants and many came from the research and development of the German Chemical Companies

I suspect that the expertise developed in Germany was taken over by the main US, British and French Oil and Chemical Companies in 1945 and "held" or "exploited" later on. I could go much further on this issue but a Public Forum is not the place for this type of information transfer

The work done by the German Scientists/Chemists in the 1930s-1940s has been the foundation for our "modern" synthetic lubricants. Many lubricants produced in this period could have easily been placed into a Commercial Marketplace

 

[Gary Allan]

From ICE STATION ZEBRA (paraphrased)

The rocket built by the Russian German scientists carrying the satellite built from the stolen plans of the American German scientists holding the camera and film developed by British German scientists ......went off course and photographed the Soviet Union by mistake.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Gary - See they were pretty smart guys eh!

As a matter of interest the last plane out of Berlin in 1939 was flown by a person who lived 25kms from here in a town called Proserpine. His name was Sidney Cotton - he was an excellent pilot who infiltrated the German heirachy in the lead up to WW2. He captured a vast array of pictures during his flights to and from England

He devised a camera that could take rolling pictures and perfected ways of hiding it within the wings and etc. His input into the early stages of WW2 is incalculable but immense

 

[OilGuy]

Interesting PAO read - Mobil developed PAO by accident in 1949. Read about it in their heavy-duty focused "History of Synthetics" brochure:
http://mobildelvac.com/usa-english/lubes/products_services/lubricants/Delvac_ads.asp

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Gary - See they were pretty smart guys eh!


Hi, Doug

Object lesson? We need more German scientists and a commitment to building the best at any cost.

 

[Hethaerto]

Fascinating stuff, guys.



Can we say Hitler's demands for suitable oil for his jets is what started the entire synthetic oil industry?

 

[Gary Allan]

Welp ..there went the thread ...

 

[Pablo]

I was going say keep it a tad more general, something like; Notwendigkeit ist die Mutter der Erfindung....

 

[jerre310]

"The first in synthetics" is a registered trademark, which could be interpreted a couple of ways. Amsoil claims when they applied for this trademark that there was not one challenge to this statement.
I'm enjoying this lesson on the history of synthetics. You have to give credit to Al, a man with a vision, who created a new market. Whether you like or dislike Amsoil and its marketing system, they give us a lot to debate on this site.

 

[greenaccord02]

I think that every oil company that produces synthetic oils owes alot to Mobil for spending millions over decades to beat the idea into people's heads that synthetics were not only a viable option, but better than conventional. No matter who it was that created, developed, or approved the technology it was Mobil Oil that created the market with its marketing.

 

[jerre310]

Yes, We have to give credit to Mobil. My point is that a small company like Amsoil started from very humble beginnings and has grown into what it is today against all the big oil companies.

 

[greenaccord02]

That's true. What's really something is Royal Purple... I'd have never thought they would blow up like they have. That's true success in the face of serious opposition. Who would have thought that you would ever see that stuff in widespread distribution, much less practically everywhere like it is now? Talk about humble beginnings, Porter, TX is widely known as the whitetrash/redneck/methlab capital of the world down here in the Houston area. Just goes to show how far a good business model, a decent product, and marketing to create a good reputation can get you.

 

[mechtech2]

I would like to have seen the advertising for 'Hitler's oil:

4 times better? [Hey... someone can use that today!]
Contains Super 'SS'?
Will Nazi freeze in cold weather?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Hethaerto - The shortage of a reliable source of petroleum supplies and an abundance of coal was a prime reason for Germany exporing all "synthetic" avenues

The Auto Union conglomerate, BMW, MB ZF and others worked with the Chemical Companies to develop fuels and lubricants for all sorts of applications from U boats to Jet and Rocket engines - and all in between

The Auto Union and MB race cars of the 1930s used quite exotic fuel and lubricants

And putting Pablo's quote in German another way - the Mother of invention can be neccessity but the Grandchildren don't always reap the benefits - or don't know how to exploit them!

Amsoil's Marketing of the word "First...." was and still is smart - the truth about the "foundation" of synthetic lubricants has nothing to do with it

I am sure that EM is happy to have Amsoil as one of their Customers!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
the Mother of invention can be neccessity but the Grandchildren don't always reap the benefits - or don't know how to exploit them!


aka: Some people are way ahead of their time ..and others are too stupid to keep just as far ahead of their time ..like there's something wrong with it.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: oilboy123
I was blown away that synthetics were invented about 1869.

I thought it was World war two.


Standard Oil refined a commercial passenger car synthetic oil in the 1920s. No one cared.

I think the oil change intervals were like 500 miles then, and increased to 2000 miles for convential oils by the 1930s I believe...

From anecdotal things I've (read being a WWII history buff), the Germans began producing synthetic oils and fuels out of desperation and acquired the technologies early, even before the the War. But that this became a matter of national necessity as they were gradually denied access to oil in the Middle East and were unable to completely secure the USSR and were under strategic bombing attack by the USAAF and the RAF at their refineries (such as in Ploesti, Romania) early.

It's hard to find sources specifically focused on the German experience with synthetic lubricants. But I've read that the Wehrmacht (actually, more correctly, the "Ostheer" or Eastern Army) discovered the cold flow characteristics of synthetic oil quite accidentally on the Eastern Front as they were able to save fuel by cranking over their cold panzers in the morning rather than leaving them idling overnight...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
...

The work done by the German Scientists/Chemists in the 1930s-1940s has been the foundation for our "modern" synthetic lubricants. Many lubricants produced in this period could have easily been placed into a Commercial Marketplace



Um, I think the Germans were as much beneficiaries of similar tech transfers...They hardly invented the synthetic oil processes...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary



I suspect that the expertise developed in Germany was taken over by the main US, British and French Oil and Chemical Companies in 1945 and "held" or "exploited" later on. I could go much further on this issue but a Public Forum is not the place for this type of information transfer

The work done by the German Scientists/Chemists in the 1930s-1940s has been the foundation for our "modern" synthetic lubricants. Many lubricants produced in this period could have easily been placed into a Commercial Marketplace



This is true, but unfortunately WE have re-invented the wheel multiple times!

What was done in the 20s-40s was re-done in the US in the 50s, than the late 70s, and now again.

Some of the F-T catalysis work that we call "ground breaking" was actually done in the 1920s! It is only now when lots of folks have access (electronically) to older German literature and research reports do we see that we have been doing over and over again what they learned with far less advanced means way back when.

We are purely "fueled" by the investment in F-T when it is financially favorable. That happens in cycles. We tend to loose all that we learned between cycles.

I actually took a course taught by a number of the world's leading F-T researchers this summer, and it was very interesting to learn about the history of the research over the last century.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Nickdfresh - You said:
"It's hard to find sources specifically focused on the German experience with synthetic lubricants. But I've read that the Wehrmacht (actually, more correctly, the "Ostheer" or Eastern Army) discovered the cold flow characteristics of synthetic oil quite accidentally on the Eastern Front as they were able to save fuel by cranking over their cold panzers in the morning rather than leaving them idling overnight..."

It was no accident!