Amsoil ATF Virgin Samples anyone?
- Thread starter MavRick
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Oil Brand Amsoil
Grade ATF Full Synthetic
Viscosity
Lab Used Oil Analyzers
Date Analyzed 6/11/02
Aluminum 0
Chromium 0
Iron 0
Copper 0
Lead 0
Tin 0
Molybdenum 0
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 39
Silicon 0
Sodium 0
Calcium 209
Magnesium 0
Phosphorus 495
Zinc 0
Barium 0
Sustained (°F) or Kinematic (°C) Viscosity 7.5 @ 100°C
Flashpoint (° F) Not Measured
Fuel (%) 0
Antifreeze (%) 0
Water (%) 0
Insolubles (%) 0
TAN - Total Acid Number 0.26
This info is in the maxima.org spreadsheet, which was just updated BTW
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Can anyone comment on the additives of this ATF and what is the TAN mean and what is a good value there? How does this compare to any other ATF's? I know the flashpoint wasn't tested, but what is expected for this ATF?
I'm particularly interested in comparing this to another that meet's Mercon V ATF specs.
Thanks.
I'm particularly interested in comparing this to another that meet's Mercon V ATF specs.
Thanks.
TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES
AMSOIL 100% Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
7.5
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
36.0
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
182
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (DIN 51581) 10.8
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92) 222 (432)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97)
-56 (-69)
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172B: 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hour, Scar in mm) 0.40
Brookfield Viscosity (cP) -10°C = 465
Brookfield Viscosity (cP) -20°C = 1030
Brookfield Viscosity (cP) -30°C = 2505
Brookfield Viscosity (cP) -40°C = 7150
In comparison to Mobil 1 ATF, Amsoil has a little less boron and a little more phosphorus. More details on M1 ATF is on the Mobil1 website. What were you going to compare it to?
Noack per the DIN test is 250°C.
Not sure what the temp of Mercon test is. Also time at temperature is critical. I can tell you if it's only 5% for an ATF it must not be the same DIN test or it's a REALLY special fluid.
EDIT = 5% weight loss max (2 h at 150°C) is the Mercon V spec.
[ December 10, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
Not sure what the temp of Mercon test is. Also time at temperature is critical. I can tell you if it's only 5% for an ATF it must not be the same DIN test or it's a REALLY special fluid.
EDIT = 5% weight loss max (2 h at 150°C) is the Mercon V spec.
[ December 10, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]
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Pablo thanks for the info. Too bad the specs don't match up. I would guess that if the Amsoil were subjected to the same test at 150 degree's C that it would use much less than 10% weight loss and probably below the 5%, but I sure would feel better if I knew that for sure. The transmission I'm using it in does not have a dip stick to check the level so the NOACK is an important test I would think.
EDIT: Why would Amsoil test at 250 degrees C when the flash point is 222?
[ December 10, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: rgiles ]
EDIT: Why would Amsoil test at 250 degrees C when the flash point is 222?
[ December 10, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: rgiles ]
1) I'm sure the test in performed under a hood with good air flow and not to many guys smoking cigars standing around!
2) I don't see how good a volatility test would be if it weren't hot enough to make the liquid be...well...volatile. Please don't confuse volatility with flamability. For example, some liquids are very volatile but not flammable.
3) At 150° C I doubt Amsoil ATF would lose more than 1 or 2%. That really isn't very hot for an oil.
4) You want the trick set-up for a car requiring Mercon V? Use Amsoil Universal Synthetic ATF and Lubegard MV.
MolaKule
Staff member
Borons are detergents and anti-wear additives.
Phosphorous is usually a phosphate ester used for anti-wear as well.
The starting TAN is about right for an ATF.
Phosphorous is usually a phosphate ester used for anti-wear as well.
The starting TAN is about right for an ATF.
MolaKule
Staff member
Do you have a Mercon V to send in for virgin analysis?
What aspects are you going to compare?
What aspects are you going to compare?
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I don't have any to send in but was contemplating getting some Motorcraft Mercon V to compare with the Amsoil. I switched to Amsoil in the Explorer, but I still would like to see what the chemical differences are that might tell a story.
Do you have any suggestions on what to compare between the two? I think I would like to see the flashpoint, and viscosity ratings to name two. I'm also curious as to what additive differences they might have.
I will send a used sample of the Amsoil at some point but need to get more miles on it.
Sounds like your mind works a lot like mind - got to get to the root of the chemistry. With ATF chemical analysis of the virgin stuff doesn't tell you THAT much. Comparing the published specs tells you SOME more but still - it'll leave you hanging - because you want to know how it performed for one very specific platform. And you'll typically get: it passed/exceeded the specs, performed by a relatively independent lab....So put this all together and come to a decision.
Does your rig shift OK? Yes please do submit a sample after xx,xxx miles.
And even though the Amsoil ATF passes the Mercon V tests, I like the Lubegard M-V.
Absolutely Amsoil has tested and had an outside lab test it to the Mercon V. They would NOT make that claim without testing!!! You are correct - It ain't cheap. The reason for 250°C vs. 150°C, for example, is: 250°C is more rigorous and also more standard - the specs they publish are not just for Mercon V - they are for the ATF itself.
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Pablo,
Thanks for the reassurances but I guess I'm a bit more skeptical because "recommending it for use" and saying it's passed testing are two different things in my mind. Does Amsoil recommend their 5w30 oil in all vehicles that require an SL rating even though it hasn't been SL approved? I'm not saying it can't pass the tests, I just want to know IF it has. See what I mean? From my understanding, only the Amsoil 7500 oils have SL ratings am I wrong? I know the 7500's aren't as good so I could deduce the others would pass also...
Don't get me wrong, I like Amsoil product offerings and claims and use the ATF as I mentioned.
Thanks
[ December 13, 2002, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: rgiles ]
Thanks for the reassurances but I guess I'm a bit more skeptical because "recommending it for use" and saying it's passed testing are two different things in my mind. Does Amsoil recommend their 5w30 oil in all vehicles that require an SL rating even though it hasn't been SL approved? I'm not saying it can't pass the tests, I just want to know IF it has. See what I mean? From my understanding, only the Amsoil 7500 oils have SL ratings am I wrong? I know the 7500's aren't as good so I could deduce the others would pass also...
Don't get me wrong, I like Amsoil product offerings and claims and use the ATF as I mentioned.
Thanks
[ December 13, 2002, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: rgiles ]
Yes Amsoil does recommend the 5W-30 for cars that ask for 5W-30 SL. You are not precisely wrong - but "ratings" are different than submiting the oil to API (for example), paying the money and then being bound to API after their approval. Amsoil just doesn't want all the mid and upper notch oils formulations, known to and pretty much controlled by waiting in line for API.
Amsoil can say they pass the API or in this case Mercon V, because the do pass the tests. Independent tests. They would have Mobil 1 lawyers out the yingyang if they just made up that stuff. People that somehow don't like Amsoil really twist the words around.
I really appreciate your thoughtful non-abusive questions - it's a relief - believe me
Now one more thing - grab your owner's manuals from all your cars - read the wording for the lubes as precisely as possible. Then get back at me.
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