By refusing to confirm that they do not use Group III base oils in their top tier products, Amsoil has left consumers with no other choice but to speculate about the reason. No Group III is a selling point. Period. Redline, with similar price points, has figured this out and will state unequivically that NONE of their products contain any Group III base oils. Why won't Amsoil do the same thing? If they had, this entire thread would never have been started.
Amsoil and Group III
- Thread starter BerndV
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One of the problems with using your base oil composition as a selling point is that it locks you in and closes the door on future changes. If you make a big deal that you do not use Group III, it becomes awfully difficult to start using it in the future, even if there are compelling technical or marketing reasons to do so. Most companies like to keep their options open and maintain the flexibility to react to changing markets or technology, and one way to do that is just keep quiet.
Originally Posted By: BerndV
No Group III is a selling point. Period.
BerndV - Why would that be a selling pt? Plse elaborate.
No Group III is a selling point. Period.
BerndV - Why would that be a selling pt? Plse elaborate.
Agreed, JHZR2. This is getting old and who really cares about Group III, IV, V, etc.
It just doesn't matter anymore. They all rock.
I just got back from my first family vacation since my oldest daughter was born 4 years ago. I also just finished a 6 month project at work that involved many, many, many 20 hour Saturdays, along with a full M-F. The only project more detailed and timeline constrained is launching the Space Shuttle.
We drove out to Michigan's Adventure on the west side of the state in the Taurus. The Taurus was filled with 6 quarts of $1.00 Korean Group III Trop Artic and a $2.08 SuperTech filter. The car ran magnificently.
Eight dollars and eight cents brought this kind of joy (not only for my daughters but for me also) and puts everything else in perspective:
It just doesn't matter anymore. They all rock.
I just got back from my first family vacation since my oldest daughter was born 4 years ago. I also just finished a 6 month project at work that involved many, many, many 20 hour Saturdays, along with a full M-F. The only project more detailed and timeline constrained is launching the Space Shuttle.
We drove out to Michigan's Adventure on the west side of the state in the Taurus. The Taurus was filled with 6 quarts of $1.00 Korean Group III Trop Artic and a $2.08 SuperTech filter. The car ran magnificently.
Eight dollars and eight cents brought this kind of joy (not only for my daughters but for me also) and puts everything else in perspective:
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Quote:
By refusing to confirm that they do not use Group III base oils in their top tier products, Amsoil has left consumers with no other choice but to speculate about the reason.
There you have it. No choice. It's like a gun to your head and you must assume/believe/confirm that it's so.
"See what they made me do?"
It's sorta along the lines of the 180° polar view of "if they ain't wid us ..they're agin us!".
By refusing to confirm that they do not use Group III base oils in their top tier products, Amsoil has left consumers with no other choice but to speculate about the reason.
There you have it. No choice. It's like a gun to your head and you must assume/believe/confirm that it's so.
"See what they made me do?"
It's sorta along the lines of the 180° polar view of "if they ain't wid us ..they're agin us!".
Gregg D. Right on my brother. You can replace oil, cars, etc., but you can't replace those kids. Looks like they are having a great time. Enjoy them while they are young. They grow up to fast.
Back in the day I used to live 10 miles away from that park...the water park is a great time! I never thought about what grease they used on the coasters, but now you got me wondering!
Originally Posted By: ericthepig
Originally Posted By: BerndV
No Group III is a selling point. Period.
BerndV - Why would that be a selling pt? Plse elaborate.
Because Group III base oils do not meet the classic definition of a synthetic that Molakule mentioned earlier in this thread: "consisting of chemical compounds which were not originally present in crude oil (petroleum), but were artificially made (synthesized) from other compounds."
One reason Group III is used in oils labeled "fully synthetic" is because performance close to that of PAO/POE formulation can be achieved at a lower price point. This is confirmed in the link Pablo provided at the start of this discussion that explained why Amsoil changed the XL line to Group III. The other reason is because, unfortunately, manufacturers can legally get away with it.
Originally Posted By: BerndV
No Group III is a selling point. Period.
BerndV - Why would that be a selling pt? Plse elaborate.
Because Group III base oils do not meet the classic definition of a synthetic that Molakule mentioned earlier in this thread: "consisting of chemical compounds which were not originally present in crude oil (petroleum), but were artificially made (synthesized) from other compounds."
One reason Group III is used in oils labeled "fully synthetic" is because performance close to that of PAO/POE formulation can be achieved at a lower price point. This is confirmed in the link Pablo provided at the start of this discussion that explained why Amsoil changed the XL line to Group III. The other reason is because, unfortunately, manufacturers can legally get away with it.
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Doesn't Amsoil buy their base oils from Shell and Mobil ?
Originally Posted By: BerndV
Because Group III base oils do not meet the classic definition of a synthetic that Molakule mentioned earlier in this thread: "consisting of chemical compounds which were not originally present in crude oil (petroleum), but were artificially made (synthesized) from other compounds."
One reason Group III is used in oils labeled "fully synthetic" is because performance close to that of PAO/POE formulation can be achieved at a lower price point. This is confirmed in the link Pablo provided at the start of this discussion that explained why Amsoil changed the XL line to Group III. The other reason is because, unfortunately, manufacturers can legally get away with it.
That definition is not relevent. Another reason Group III may be used is to keep product cost the same and substitute some PAO for some uber-expensive POE (NOT all created equal!) or some kick-butt additive package. That same cost oil may outperform an oil meeting the no longer relevent definition above. Your viewpoint reminds me of judging a book by its cover.
Because Group III base oils do not meet the classic definition of a synthetic that Molakule mentioned earlier in this thread: "consisting of chemical compounds which were not originally present in crude oil (petroleum), but were artificially made (synthesized) from other compounds."
One reason Group III is used in oils labeled "fully synthetic" is because performance close to that of PAO/POE formulation can be achieved at a lower price point. This is confirmed in the link Pablo provided at the start of this discussion that explained why Amsoil changed the XL line to Group III. The other reason is because, unfortunately, manufacturers can legally get away with it.
That definition is not relevent. Another reason Group III may be used is to keep product cost the same and substitute some PAO for some uber-expensive POE (NOT all created equal!) or some kick-butt additive package. That same cost oil may outperform an oil meeting the no longer relevent definition above. Your viewpoint reminds me of judging a book by its cover.
Personally, I think that the original quote is as suss as th quotes that we saw a few years ago.
As to the people who are using the word "fiasco", I would caution against that word strongly.
3-1/2 years ago, I was drying myself after a shower, wanting to get to the hospital to see my hours old son, while spending half an hour explaining in sworn statements to lawyers exactly what I meant by the word "fiasco" in an e-mail to a colleague.
Lawyers grab and twist.
As to the people who are using the word "fiasco", I would caution against that word strongly.
3-1/2 years ago, I was drying myself after a shower, wanting to get to the hospital to see my hours old son, while spending half an hour explaining in sworn statements to lawyers exactly what I meant by the word "fiasco" in an e-mail to a colleague.
Lawyers grab and twist.
This testing is good to read occasionally to ground us in reality. It's been posted before. http://www.oetg.at/website/wtc2001cd/html/M-21-P58-614-CERNY.pdf#search='test oil elf 0W40'
Originally Posted By: whitesands
Doesn't Amsoil buy their base oils from Shell and Mobil ?
And PetroCanada and Hatco and Chevron and others
Doesn't Amsoil buy their base oils from Shell and Mobil ?
And PetroCanada and Hatco and Chevron and others
How many does Schaeffer's use, besides Shell and Exxon/Mobil?
Quote:
Amsoil BUYS base stocks from Exxon-Mobil, do you think the world's largest supplier of PAO's would not use them in their own product?
Everyone seems to make this assumption. The company they deal with does not produce Mobil oils.
Quote:
One of the vendors we work with is Exxon Mobil Chemical. This is not to be confused with Exxon Mobil motor oil.
AMSOIL purchases additives and base oil chemistries from a variety of vendors. Those chemistries are the most advanced chemistries in the world. In many cases, they are chemistries of such high quality that other companies are unwilling to invest the money.
Amsoil BUYS base stocks from Exxon-Mobil, do you think the world's largest supplier of PAO's would not use them in their own product?
Everyone seems to make this assumption. The company they deal with does not produce Mobil oils.
Quote:
One of the vendors we work with is Exxon Mobil Chemical. This is not to be confused with Exxon Mobil motor oil.
AMSOIL purchases additives and base oil chemistries from a variety of vendors. Those chemistries are the most advanced chemistries in the world. In many cases, they are chemistries of such high quality that other companies are unwilling to invest the money.
Quote:
One of the vendors we work with is Exxon Mobil Chemical. This is not to be confused with Exxon Mobil motor oil.
AMSOIL purchases additives and base oil chemistries from a variety of vendors. Those chemistries are the most advanced chemistries in the world. In many cases, they are chemistries of such high quality that other companies are unwilling to invest the money.
Where was this taken from?
One of the vendors we work with is Exxon Mobil Chemical. This is not to be confused with Exxon Mobil motor oil.
AMSOIL purchases additives and base oil chemistries from a variety of vendors. Those chemistries are the most advanced chemistries in the world. In many cases, they are chemistries of such high quality that other companies are unwilling to invest the money.
Where was this taken from?
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