Amazon Basics 0W-40 Euro

[OVERKILL]

I understand you completely but why not get MB 229.5 approval to be on the list? I completely get it and I don't question this HPL oil at all. Heck, I never heard of it. What I am questioning is that on one hand folks are questioning "why would someone use this Amazon Basic Euro that is not approved while M1 Euro is approved and sitting on the shelf at Wally World at the same price" but yet folks on BITOG seem to have zero issues with paying 3x the cost for a non approved HPL oil while again M1 approved oil is sitting on the shelf at Wally World for 1/3 the cost. This is beyond me. Let me go grab that 1/2 case of Heineken in my fridge and maybe I will come to sense after finishing that.

For people who aren't keen on the idea of not having formal approvals or are more budget conscious, Dave at HPL recommends M1 FS 0W-40 a lot of the time, because they've tested the product internally and it's "too good" to be sold at the price Mobil sells it for; it's an absolute bargain for the performance you get. If you do some searching you'll find numerous cases of this.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Warren and HPL are on different ends of the spectrum. Warren is blending for the lowest cost possible to meet the price targets set by Walmart, Amazon...etc, while HPL is blending for the highest performance possible with final cost playing a very minor role in dictating materials selection. As @BMWTurboDzl noted above, the only way Dave was able to get Dr. Rudnick onboard was to basically give him carte blanche on formulation. The "Godfather" of modern synthetic oil formulation, the man was retired and wasn't interested in pinching pennies to pad profits for somebody else. Giving him access to the best materials and saying "have at 'er!" was essentially what got him onboard. Basically, a very different type of involvement from when he worked for the majors.

They (HPL) DO start with formally approved additive packages. You can buy these from Lubrizol, Afton, Infineum (owned by Mobil and Shell)...etc. But then they:
- Use a blend of premium base oils that includes esters and AN's to provide cleaning.
- Use PAO for their 0W-xx formulations and Super Car product line.
- Use high quality VII's in the minimum amount required, leaning more on the base oil. This basically eliminates shear.
- Test the product extensively while using certain blends of additives they know are synergistic with the core additives, to improve overall performance. This fine tuning is done until the best results are attained and then the blend is considered optimal.

Their Super Car 0W-40 for example, doesn't have any more ZDDP than M1 0W-40 does. But, it has a lot more moly. They also use blends of different types of moly along with other FM chemistry (like tungsten) depending on the formulation (part of that fine-tuning I mentioned earlier) depending on what yields the best results for AW and friction reduction. This is expensive, but again, cost is a very minor factor in materials selection with their oils.

Does that help?

 

[hondaguyinma]

If I had a turo'd Merc I'd sell the Amazon stuff for what I paid to move it out and use any oil with the 229.5 approval like M1 etc.

HPL is a boutique high-performance oil and not in the same category as the name-brand off-the-shelf oils and with testing would meet the approvals that we are talking about - that is based on the trust placed in the company, their track record, and their Q&As here ad nauseam on BITOG;
I got some snake oil here. You wanna buy some? I was told it may get you 2 million miles on that Sportwagen.

I suggest if you are interested in it to spend the time reading up.
Thanks but I will leave it to the engineers and chemists at Exxon Mobil and Warren and Pennzoil or whomever to understand this stuff and produce the products that I can buy.

I run approved oils in both of my other VWs that see normal daily use and wouldn't run the Amazon stuff in either for lack of approval.
But yet the HPL is not approved and you are OK with it in addition to pay 3x the price. Regardless how great the oil is, someone here said it does not cost that much to get approved. At $16 a quart I would think they can afford it, don't you think so? Why not get approved then many others may buy the stuff that may be sitting on the fence now and chose M1 instead because of the HPL non approval? Wouldn't this make sense? I mean why did Castrol and M1 and Pennzoil get on the approval list?

And who is "Mr. Chase"?
You put him on your profile pic.

Like anything in life, you generally get what you pay for.
Maybe true "most" of the time but not 100% of the time. Would you buy a Monster Cable HDMI cable for $30 when you can get one an Amazon brand or Monoprice for $5?

 

[OVERKILL]

I know I am not making many friends here but it seems like BITOG is all about pushing HPL Oil. Are they a sponsor of the site or something?

They are a current sponsor, yes, so is an AMSOIL dealer, Shell, and I'm sure there are others. The forum has also previously been sponsored by ExxonMobil.

The reason there are quite a few people keen on HPL is because the owner is an active participant on here, he's had multiple BITOG members to their blending and testing facility to see their process and he is more open and transparent about formulation and testing than we've ever experienced with an oil company. That creates some significant credibility and confidence in the products.

They are certainly not for everyone and I tend to avoid recommending their products for people who are budget conscious and won't reap the benefits. That's why I recommended M1 0W-40 for your application for example, as I didn't feel there was a benefit in recommending HPL.

 

[hondaguyinma]

Does that help?

Yes. Totally. You and @Astro14 made a lot of sense and I have zero doubt whatsoever on the HPL oil. My question is just IF they will have zero issues with getting it approved, why not do it just so people like myself don't question it? People in this thread have said they would have zero issues with using Amazon, Supertech, Mag1 or any of those Warren oil among others if they carried the 229.5 approval. So my question is the same. Why not get the 229.5 approval (HPL) so that those folks including myself would use it without hesitation? That's all.

 

[buster]

Yes. Totally. You and @Astro14 made a lot of sense and I have zero doubt whatsoever on the HPL oil. My question is just IF they will have zero issues with getting it approved, why not do it just so people like myself don't question it? People in this thread have said they would have zero issues with using Amazon, Supertech, Mag1 or any of those Warren oil among others if they carried the 229.5 approval. So my question is the same. Why not get the 229.5 approval (HPL) so that those folks including myself would use it without hesitation? That's all.

I suspect the SA levels would be too high in some of their oils to gain approval, similar to Amsoil SS/Red Line.

 

[Astro14]

Yes. Totally. You and @Astro14 made a lot of sense and I have zero doubt whatsoever on the HPL oil. My question is just IF they will have zero issues with getting it approved, why not do it just so people like myself don't question it? People in this thread have said they would have zero issues with using Amazon, Supertech, Mag1 or any of those Warren oil among others if they carried the 229.5 approval. So my question is the same. Why not get the 229.5 approval (HPL) so that those folks including myself would use it without hesitation? That's all.

That is a question for HPL, but I would venture that it costs money to get that approval, and for a small company, there is insufficient return on that investment.

If their sales won’t go up enough to offset the cost, why bother?

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes. Totally. You and @Astro14 made a lot of sense and I have zero doubt whatsoever on the HPL oil. My question is just IF they will have zero issues with getting it approved, why not do it just so people like myself don't question it? People in this thread have said they would have zero issues with using Amazon, Supertech, Mag1 or any of those Warren oil among others if they carried the 229.5 approval. So my question is the same. Why not get the 229.5 approval (HPL) so that those folks including myself would use it without hesitation? That's all.

My understanding is that some of the modifications made to the formulations result in exceedances to certain limits imposed by the API and ACEA. As @buster noted, one of these would be SA, which has no impact on product performance.

I posted the ACEA A3/B4 stuff earlier in the thread. SA is limited to 1.0 to 1.6% for this designation. Most of the Euro approvals are foundational, meaning they require an ACEA approval as a basis, so if you are precluded from claiming A3/B4 due to SA, even if you passed all the tests for like A40 for example, you might not be able to claim it if a requirement was also A3/B4. Make sense?

 

[TiGeo]

HPL is a boutique high-performance oil and not in the same category as the name-brand off-the-shelf oils and with testing would meet the approvals that we are talking about - that is based on the trust placed in the company, their track record, and their Q&As here ad nauseam on BITOG;
I got some snake oil here. You wanna buy some? I was told it may get you 2 million miles on that Sportwagen.

My Sportwagen is pushing 200hp/liter at more than 2x stock power. I'm not worried about 2 million miles, I'd be happy to get 150K out of that engine and I'll do that using the best oil I can buy. This car sees regular track use. To that end, I'll put my money on a company that makes oils for race cars vs. Warren. I believe I said this several times, happily use Supertech oil in 2/5 of my vehicles. You are comparing a budget oil maker with a company that produces lubricants for NASCAR teams...are you serious?

I suggest if you are interested in it to spend the time reading up.
Thanks but I will leave it to the engineers and chemists at Exxon Mobil and Warren and Pennzoil or whomever to understand this stuff and produce the products that I can buy.

As do I for 4/5 of my vehicles. Clearly you aren't in a use-case to consider HPL, I get it, neither am I...for 4/5 of my vehicles and run Supertech, Quaker State, and Liquimoly oil in them.

I run approved oils in both of my other VWs that see normal daily use and wouldn't run the Amazon stuff in either for lack of approval.
But yet the HPL is not approved and you are OK with it in addition to pay 3x the price. Regardless how great the oil is, someone here said it does not cost that much to get approved. At $16 a quart I would think they can afford it, don't you think so? Why not get approved then many others may buy the stuff that may be sitting on the fence now and chose M1 instead because of the HPL non approval? Wouldn't this make sense? I mean why did Castrol and M1 and Pennzoil get on the approval list?

You keep missing this man....yes, I realize it's not approved but I'm comfortable based on convos with Dave at HPL that their Euro 5W40 is a great oil for my Sportwagen. Clearly you are not, so why are we discussing this and why are you here asking questions? Drop that Amazon oil in your Merc and send it then. HPL's customer base doesn't seem to care about the approvals, so why should they do it to convince a guy that has a MB and is debating running Amazon oil in it? They clearly are ok with their oils and how they run their business. Move along.

And who is "Mr. Chase"?
You put him on your profile pic.

Got it hahahaha. Emmett-Fitz-Hume to be more precise!

Like anything in life, you generally get what you pay for.
Maybe true "most" of the time but not 100% of the time. Would you buy a Monster Cable HDMI cable for $30 when you can get one an Amazon brand or Monoprice for $5?

I would not use a Monster Cable for my basic viewing needs at home but I'm sure some audiophiles embrace higher end AV kit.

 

[buster]

HPL is one of the 3 boutique brands I would have full trust in. When you use an non approved oil like Amsoil SS/Red Line/HPL you're generally getting an oil with a higher concentration of certain additives and components, as reflected in the price. You're also putting full trust they know what they're doing. They're a niche product. Being the top tier products from each of the major formulations produce oils that greatly exceed the most stringent engine tests, while under warranty I prefer to use approved oils. I wouldn't want to deal with the headache if something were to happen. I will run one now and then though. Also, I see very little value in boutique oils unless you're truly taking advantage of the very long drain intervals. Under 10k miles you'll likely see no benefit at all.

 

[TiGeo]

Under 10k miles you'll likely see no benefit at all.

The benefit is not only the ability for longer drain intervals, it's a more stout product for heavy duty use such as track etc.

 

[Astro14]

The original question has been answered in extensive discussion. This thread has turned into an HPL referendum, which is way off topic. It’s lock time.