Am I crazy for thinking that most Firestones suck?

[MNgopher]

tightwad, you may really want to put some hard evidence of your story into this link. The problematic tires in the most recent large Firestone recall primarily came from the Decatur, Illinois plant, which last I checked, is not in South America. The Decatur plant was closed and is no longer producing tires for Firestone.

In addition, I'd note that if you review the Tirerack surveys, some Firestone tires do very well - like the Destination AT.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: tightwad
I don't think rusted steel was the only cause of the latest problem. Most of those tires were made in South America. I brought up the issue to demonstrate the attitude of the company. Would Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear or any other company store raw materials out in the weather? I've seen pictures of the plant, so it's true unless someone photoshopped them.


Did you actually read what I wrote?

http://www.barrystiretech.com/fordfirestone.html

It's clear the tires were NOT made in South America. It's also clear the wire was NOT stored outside.

How much more bad information do you have? And why are you continuing to post information that you haven't checked up on?

Oh, and did they tell you they stored BAD material outside - stuff they rejected and weren't going to use? Wouldn't that make an interesting - but Bogus - photo?

The first recall - Firestone 500 - WAS a rust issue, but the problem was the chenmicals being used - and the second one (Widerness AT) WASN'T about rust. It was about aging and belt edge design.

 

[flwxman]

I feel that many people just buy a tire on price and don't really match the tire to their vehicle and driving style.

I went from a set of Firestone Firehawk GT's (which I really liked) to a set of Bridgestone Ecopia EP422's on my Spectra. I expected the tires to behave very differently. The squirminess of these tires is greatly diminished with a higher tire pressure. I drive very conservatively, and am pleased with the dry and wet traction. But, I also expect them to not react like the Firehawks did. For the tire it is actually designed to be, it is excellent. I have seen 5% greater fuel economy, at least. But they are not performance tires by any stretch.

 

[Frank D]

I've got Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grids on my 2007 Camry LE size P215/60VR16. They are the noisiest, hardest riding tires I have ever had. They feel like they are flat spotted and ride even worse in the cold weather and get worse as the miles increase. With 45,000 miles on the set there is still plenty of thread on the tires but the ride quality and noise is just unbearable. Will be replacing these in May but with what I don't know.

 

[tightwad]

Sorry, man, I guess I'm just not writing clearly. Back in the late 70's, the was a lot of publicity about the steel being stored outside. That was at the Decatur plant. If I remember, Firestone said it was not a problem. At the time, everyone thought the rust on the steel was the problem. I read your post and it seems the adhesive in the tires was the real issue. I mentioned South America because, if you'll remember, that's where all the problems in the later recall started. There were multiple accidents involving Ford Explorers in Argentina. The first recalls were down there. So, by trying not to be long-winded, I think I just confused everyone.

Sorry, I tried to copy Capri Racer's last post and failed. That's what I'm answering.

 

[mva]

The last set of tires on my Prius were Firestone Affinity. Despite the treadwear rating of 560 and several rotations they only lasted 37,000 km (23,000 miles) to get down to the wear bars. I have heard that the Prius is hard on tires but this is the worst tire life I have experienced in the past 15 years.

Other than the rapid wear they were fine in wet and light snow conditions. These tires were installed at a Toyota dealer, just prior to me purchasing the vehicle, so they may have been an original equipment tire that came off another new vehicle.

Despite this bad experience, I just replaced them with a set of Bridgestone Turanza's. I wanted to try a low rolling resistance tire but Walmart was clearing the Turanzas out, consumer reports rates the Turanza as moderate for fuel economy and the price was just to good to pass up.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: tightwad
Sorry, man, I guess I'm just not writing clearly. Back in the late 70's, the was a lot of publicity about the steel being stored outside. That was at the Decatur plant. If I remember, Firestone said it was not a problem. At the time, everyone thought the rust on the steel was the problem. I read your post and it seems the adhesive in the tires was the real issue. I mentioned South America because, if you'll remember, that's where all the problems in the later recall started. There were multiple accidents involving Ford Explorers in Argentina. The first recalls were down there. So, by trying not to be long-winded, I think I just confused everyone.

Sorry, I tried to copy Capri Racer's last post and failed. That's what I'm answering.


I was just old enough to be aware of such things at the time the issues occured and I CLEARLY remember watching TV newscasts that mentioned the very things you speak of here, so your information IS correct. I recall that it was on 60 minutes.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: tightwad
Sorry, man, I guess I'm just not writing clearly. Back in the late 70's, the was a lot of publicity about the steel being stored outside. That was at the Decatur plant. If I remember, Firestone said it was not a problem. At the time, everyone thought the rust on the steel was the problem. I read your post and it seems the adhesive in the tires was the real issue. I mentioned South America because, if you'll remember, that's where all the problems in the later recall started. There were multiple accidents involving Ford Explorers in Argentina. The first recalls were down there. So, by trying not to be long-winded, I think I just confused everyone.

Sorry, I tried to copy Capri Racer's last post and failed. That's what I'm answering.


I think you'll find the country was Venezuela. - OK, I am now going to check to see if that is correct:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/upgradetire/econ/tireupgradei.html

This is from NHTSA, and the Middle East, Venezuela, Malaysia, and Thailand are mentioned, but sadly Argentina is not.

http://dcomm.cxc.lsu.edu/portfolios/09spr/dcoron1/BridgestoneFirestoneCaseStudy.pdf

This mentions 60 Minutes, but again, Venezuela is mentioned and Argentina is not.

But the most telling thing is that rust is NOT mentioned in either, nor is storing materials outside.

To bolster my case I am going to refer to the NHTSA report on the subject - which has some very interesting photos. Here's one:

Notice that the separation is between layers. If rust on the belt were a problem, each individual cord would be surrounded by the separation - but it's not. In fact, none of the cords are.

It's now clear that I am not going to be able to persuade you. All I can tell you is that I have studied this extensively. I've gone so far as write a webpage to document what I found. I don't find anything that supports the "rust" theory. What more can I say?

 

[Hermann]

Originally Posted By: Slick17601
I've had 2 sets of Destination LE's and would not hesitate to buy another set.


WE own two sets also and will probably get another set for the Tacoma if the originals ever wear out. 55K and lots of tread left. Great in the wet and good in the snow we have had in the last 4 winters.

 

[SteveSRT8]

OMG, we're quoting 60 minutes as though they are the standard for accuracy now?

Sheesh!

 

[kkreit01]

Yeah -- you crazy

Every manufacturer has some "poor -- good -- great" tires. Yes -- even Michelin has some bad ones. Firestone and Goodyear (often bashed as well) has some good ones, and some bad. They all do.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: mva
The last set of tires on my Prius were Firestone Affinity. Despite the treadwear rating of 560 and several rotations they only lasted 37,000 km (23,000 miles) to get down to the wear bars. I have heard that the Prius is hard on tires but this is the worst tire life I have experienced in the past 15 years.

Despite this bad experience, I just replaced them with a set of Bridgestone Turanza's.

Firestone must have about a half-dozen versions of the Affinty: Affinty OE, Touring, S4, T4, etc.
Nevertheless, if you only got 23,000 miles from a 65-70,000 mile tire you should have got them replaced under warranty.

 

[01rangerxl]

There were definitely issues with some of the Wilderness tires, but I think after that mess Firestone made a legitimate effort to improve their products. The Destination line is one of the better light truck tires available and is also competitively priced with frequent sales like buy 3 get 1 free.

I have had three sets of Destination ATs and one set of Destination HTs (now called LE). They have had very even wear and I've gotten decent life out of them. Currently my truck has the AT in size P235/75R15 with about 33K miles on them and at least 10-15K left. This truck finished off its first two sets of tires in 20K each, so that's pretty good tire life for it.

Also, while it's going to vary some, I have had great experiences with all of the Firestone stores I have dealt with. I have gotten three tire patches out of them for free. Even when I had to get a tire patched out of state, I had no problem getting it done quickly and for free. I wouldn't use them for all of my automotive needs, but for tires and alignments they are good, at least with my experiences in NC and AL.

 

[Cardenio327]

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
My opinion:

Bridgestones are more often than not a quality tire. Their low-end stuff is exactly that, low end, but they are generally a good buy.

Firestones are more often than not a very mediocre tire. Their high-end stuff is very good, but everything else seems a step or two below similar tires at similar prices, making them not a very good value.


^^^ This ^^^

I own a Bridgestone franchise here in Mexico, and the quote above is very accurate.

Bridgestone's OE tires are compromised, generally speaking.

Bridgestone's consumer tires are excellant choices, albeit expensive.

Firestone's high end labels [Destination, Transforce, Wide Oval & Firehawk] are great tires.

Firestone's OE tires and low end labels [Affinity, FR series, Wilderness, etc.] aren't much good at all.

Here in Mexico Firestone has a great reputation and takes measures to preserve it. Bridgestone is relatively unknown here. In the U.S. Firestone has a poor reputation and is doing little to better it, especially to blame are their corporate owned Firestone stores. Bridgestone and Firestone have lines designed for use in tropical climates that perform very well here [Potenza GIII, Potenza RE740, F series, Multihawk, Duravis R630, etc.]. The only S-rated car tires sold as Bridgestones or Firestones here are O.E. tires. The consumer car tires are always T-rated or above, in contrast to the U.S. where many of the Firestones are S-rated. We have 3rd quality brands [Seiberling, etc.] to sell the s-rated junk as to prevent brand contamination. Bridgestone doesn't sell Chinese made tires here at all, in contrast to the Primewell garbage sold at Firestone corporate stores in the U.S.

I get asked by customers about the Explorer/Firestone fiasco about once a month. Many thanks to Capriracer for his article on the matter. The article has helped me explain Firestone's side without seeming like a spin doctor.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio32

Firestone's OE tires and low end labels [Affinity, FR series, Wilderness, etc.] aren't much good at all.

The Firestone FR710 is rated 9th out 24 tires in the all-season survey, a respectable showing I'd say considering the competition.

For tires sales I've always been satisfied with the prices and service at the Firestone corporate owned stores over many years, and I'm not an easy one to please.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
........I get asked by customers about the Explorer/Firestone fiasco about once a month. Many thanks to Capriracer for his article on the matter. The article has helped me explain Firestone's side without seeming like a spin doctor.


You are quite welsome. I know that it is sometimes difficult to sort this complicated stuff out - and just like conspiracy theories, there's just enough rumour and innuendo to make people believe some of the most outlandish thuings.

In this case, it wasn't the inflation pressure - although that didn't help things. It wasn't solely a manufacturing defect (as in a reoccurring problem). It wasn't the cost issue either. (Ford didn't drive Firestone to use substandard materials)

It was the tread pattern coupled with the odd way the rubber compound was processed by the Decatur plant. This was all about the design - and that's where it needed to be fixed - by the R&D folks.

The Firestone management handled this very poorly - just like they did 30 years earlier - and you can fault them for that. Their first reaction was to defend. What they should have done is when the first reports started coming in is to investigate and figure out what was causing the issue and fix it. That takes time and effort and sometimes spending money in the plant - something American management isn't always good at doing. It also takes an iron will to tell a customer (like Ford) that you're going to turn down business because it would result in a situation you don't want to be a part of.

Overall there are a number of lessons to be learned from the situation.

 

[Bgallagher]

Bridgestone Dueler H/T D684 II were one of the worst tires I have ever driven. They came OEM on my Equinox. They were loud, wore quickly and had terrible traction (even in AWD.) I do agree that Firestone Destination A/T are amazing. Great traction, smooth and quiet. Wish they made them in the size for my Equinox.

 

[Cardenio327]

Originally Posted By: Rock_Hudstone

The Firestone FR710 is rated 9th out 24 tires in the all-season survey, a respectable showing I'd say considering the competition.

For tires sales I've always been satisfied with the prices and service at the Firestone corporate owned stores over many years, and I'm not an easy one to please.


My remark was aimed more at the FR380 and less at the FR710, which is a much better tire.

I don't have any meaningful experience at Firestone's corporate stores, so you caught me there too. My opinion was formed by reading about them on BITOG and one visit I made to their Olympia location to see how they do things that did not impress me at all. Many of their locations probably have great service, or Bridgestone would have sold off the stores long ago.

I dislike the Affinity and FR products because they are mainly S-rated [180 Km/h] tires. T-rated [190 Km/h] may not seem much better, but it makes all the difference in the world in high speed operation in hot climes. T-rated have a nylon cap-ply and S-rated do not. I have heard that S-rated tires aren't even permitted for use on passenger cars in Europe. In the U.S. speeds rarely exceed 80 m.p.h., and when they do it is seldom for more than 10 minutes, and those that do exceed 80 for extended periods probably have H-rated or above tires. Here in Mexico most people drive as fast as they possibly can. On most federal highways high speed isn't possible due to heavy truck traffic, sharp curves and poor surface condition. However, Mexico has an extensive expressway [autopista] system that grows every year. When traveling on the expressways you have to check your mirror very carefully before changing lanes in case a VW Bora or Passat is overtaking you at 130 m.p.h. I have had a customer brag about driving his Renault Megane Turbo 145 m.p.h. on the expressway, but who knows how much he was exaggerating, or how far off his speedometer was. The good tires are rapidly separated from the mediocre tires when extended high speeds are involved. The big five tire manufacturers aren't willing to sell S-rated tires here as their good reputations are at stake.

That said, I have sold a limited quantity of Affinity S4, and the customers were happy with them, especially in that they lasted quite well.

 

[4ever4d]

The majority of tires i have used in the past 20 years were Michelin,Firestone and Bridgestone. Two sets of the Michelin's i would not purchase again, the last set i purchased have been and still are excellent tires. One set of Bridgestone's i would not purchase again, the others were excellent. I currently have 6 Firestone tires on my F-350 and they have been nothing but outstanding, as were the other 3 sets i used. The point i am making is i don't think every tire even if they are the right size goes well with every vehicle regardless of the price. In general i have had good and bad in all brands but i do have faith in Firestone as a brand even after there past errors.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
I dislike the Affinity and FR products because they are mainly S-rated [180 Km/h] tires. T-rated [190 Km/h] may not seem much better, but it makes all the difference in the world in high speed operation in hot climes. T-rated have a nylon cap-ply and S-rated do not.

The new Affinty Touring and Firestone Precison Touring only have three S rated tires in 14-15 inch 70 series and unlikely to see sustained high speeds. The rest are all T or H rated.

The passenger car FR710 offers a few more tires S rated, but they are also available T rated, except in one or two sizes for some reason.

The rest of the older Affinty and FR line is more or less discontinued.