Alternating ARX and LC Maintenance Dose

[deoxy4]

I have a Honda 4 cylinder engine with 18K miles. I have decided to use dino at 5K mile OCI. I am using LC at the prescribed dose.

I have received my ARX and LC order. I was pondering using LC at the prescribed dose of 3 ounces at change and 1 ounces every 1K miles. As it is not recommended that LC and ARX be used concurrently, I was cosidering using 2-3 ounces of ARX on the next OCI. I would alternate this routine every 5K mile OCI. Has anyone used this or a similar routine?

Would it be a better idea to use the LC routine on every oil change and do a complete ARX treatment at say 50K-75K miles?

My driving is approximately 50/50 city/highway.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Option 2 looks best to me. You may expiriment with extending the OCI's out. With the 50/50 driving and LC I would think 7500 is easily obtainable.

 

[darkdan]

Yeah, flip flopping is just way....overboard.

Maybe use the LC until you're out. Then the auto-rx until you're out, and then pull a John Kerry.

But every other OCI is a little....I'll stick with overboard.

 

[deoxy4]

You think the maintenance dose of ARX is, I'll say it, obsessive?

 

[02StangGT4Foam]

So why can't LC and ARX be used together?

 

[peterr]

My vote is for full Auto-RX cycle every "Insert number of miles makes you happy" and then LC20 in maintenance mode after the ARX is complete.

Many have said use AutoRX to clean your engine and use LC20 to keep it clean.

My understanding is that ARX and LubeControl are competing chemistries. I doubt that they would do harm if mixed, but the AutoRX would probably try to remove the LC20 as a contaminant and the LC20 might interfere with the ARX.

 

[ALS]

quote:

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So why can't LC and ARX be used together?

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It seems that the two don't mix well. You get a nasty black coating over everything. I would make sure that you did an OCI between the change to make sure the previous product is completely out before you introduce the other product to the oil.

 

[kgb007stb]

I am using 10% LC which is 3oz/qt at initial fill-up and 3oz/1000mi. I did a 9k mile run without LC, now I am almost complete with my 9k run with LC and when done in about three weeks or so I will post my results here for comparison, patience.

 

[deoxy4]

kgb007stb,

Great, I will be looking for your results. What engine and what oil?

 

[kgb007stb]

Saturn 1.9L, someone in the family does a lot of driving so I choose this car as my experiment car since the engine is fairly new and I want to see for myself what it is that the LC is doing inside the engine.

 

[TheTanSedan]

My son bought a "new" 2001 Jeep Cherokee (67,000 miles, sharp)and his on his way back to Quantico as I write this; and this makes the fourth car I've done the following procedure with. Mileage wouldn't matter to me, be it 15,000 miles or 150,000 miles:

Overnight LC-20 piston soak (2-3 ozs per cylinder) plus 6-8 ozs in crankcase; turn over once after an hour; preceded by a double dose of FP-60 in the tank.

Clean throttle body with MOPAR TBI aerosol, and combustion chambers with MOPAR CCC aerosol per directions. New air filter, and check air inlet system for leaks (on JEEP, on valve cover, I used the revised air system parts and gasketed them with cork for no more oily blowby to atmosphere).

Start in morning after blowing out cylinders and re-installing old spark plugs. Idle 15-20 minutes. Then, fresh plugs and oil/filter and ARX.

Follow ARX regimen to a "T" with diesel-rated 10w30 and low restriction oil filter for both phases.

Next OFL, some RED LINE oil/low-restriction filter and run it 4-6000 miles, with LC-20 per directions.

Then, time to sample for UOA and to decide on "maintenance dose" of whichever product.

The JEEP owner, a newly-minted Marine aviator

, will change out the "cleaning phase" at trips end (1,300 miles in 1.5 days), run the ARX rinse/Delo 10w30/DONALDSON for 2,000-plus miles, and then some RED LINE/DONALDSON for 4-6,000 miles or to a year depending on miles. We'll sample, and let Terry at DYSON ANALYSIS tell us what to do next.

90,000-plus miles on all these products, on six cars these past few years.

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

TheTanSedan - Holy ******* **** Batman! What is the total time and money investment in this process, and what is the payoff? What would have been wrong with doing none of that but just doing regular oil changes with conventional motor oil at the intervals recommended in the manual and using a good filter?

 

[TheTanSedan]

[1] qt; ARx
[1] gl; Fuel Power
[1] gl; Lube Control
[3] ea; low restriction oil filters
[12] qts; dino diesel 10w30
[6] qts; RED LINE OIL
[1] can; MOPAR CCC
[1] can; MOPAR TBI Cleaner

Where's the price problem? At 67,000 miles and evidence of no or little maintenance (spark plugs may have been original; or changed only once) it was time for a major tune up on this 5-1/2 year old vehicle going into service with the third owner. (The same was true last year when I bought this 86,000 mile truck -- now at 116,000 -- and am sending in a UOS this week as first RL change was made a month or so ago).

I already had most of the items listed (FP, LC, aerosol cans) and only had to order ARX plus pick up the oil to do the job on son's new car.

Would you consider that a little money under the hood goes a long way to keeping the engine new, not just okay? As to "just oil changes" have a look around here on these products. I have over 90,000 miles on them, and am confident of their claims.

The clean-up process that has worked well for me extends from the piston soak to the end of the first run of the RED LINE. I've had three cars and one truck in the past thirty years, and not one of them was new when purchased. I saw no reason then to skimp on maintenance, and none now. The cost is little, and the time is pretty much an overnight job combined with a spark plug change; so 20-30,000 miles/every year or two on average.

Once I have a used oil analysis and Terry Dysons recommendations in hand (and have sent him the relevant other info on maintenance, fuel usage, operating conditions, etc) then I can hone in the last details to minimize engine wear.

Cars are to be kept to 12-15 years (my others were from 17 to 34 years old and my only daily driver at the time of sale), mileage to at least 200,000 and the ability to go anywhere at anytime with everything working. Costs are recorded so as to gain a cents-per-mile picture.

The example of what was done with the son's JEEP is only a fraction of what we did in about a weeks time: all fluids, hoses, belt, filters, thermostat, fasteners, TBI overhaul (plus IAC and TPS sensors), anti-roll bar bushings, upgraded brakes, great tires & shocks, E-code headlights, etc. None of it cheap. But all of it already proven on a 2001 JEEP we owned that was totalled last spring.

The numbers NEVER work in cheaping out on maintenance. Your definition of cheap is different than mine, apparently.

The factory recommendations -- remember -- are a minimum. There is a real difference at 150,000 miles or about seven years on a car where the owner has been meticulous, and one where the owner is sort of okay . . . anticipating that he'll buy another "cause this one is having problems". They all have problems, so, IMO, keep 'em top notch in the first place, and fix all else as it comes along. The average first owner keeps it seven years, or, about five to eight years too short a time to get his money out of it.

My son will, barring an accident or theft (and insurance to reflect stated value, not book), keep this vehicle until 2012 or '13 when the car is 11 or 12 years old. He'll be about thirty and in a position to pay cash for the next one. That's the ticket, that's the payoff.

The rest is just filling in the maintenance and replacement schedule through that time, and recording costs on a software program. Next years work is already laid out.

(More than you wanted to read, I would guess).

[ January 02, 2006, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: TheTanSedan ]

 

[TheTanSedan]

Thanks. Much. I was tired and irritated last night, NOT the time to be posting. My son gives up some things in order to achieve others. I realize that I gave a misleading impression in my first post. He's not yet earned his wings, but I have the confidence now that will happen. Sorry for any misunderstanding. Just something I "saw" as he was talking with the WWWII pilots in the family. Something clicked for me.

As health allows I'm trying to give everything experience has allowed me so that first "new" car is everything it can be for him . . . without the burden of hurtful financing and depreciation costs as he gets his life, his career, his service underway.

I come from a family of pilots. Alas, never one myself despite the hours of reading and the hours of flying second seat.

At least the slightly higher level of abstraction needed to understand that "if the machine is right, all else can be dealt with" can apply to a Peterbilt, a Jeep, and especially an aircraft. It is then that we can achieve what the vehicle designer intended.

We had a lot of fun in doing the work.

There was a bit of talk recently that the A-10 Warthog might become a Marine asset. That got his ears perked. Close air support is some of the finest kind of flying for a military man that is imaginable. Heard a USMC colonel expound last year on the two types of Marines: Bulldogs and Dobermans. The second fits this one: Slash, turn, and come in again.

As to the regimen, well, if you haven't taken it apart and examined it before putting it back into service, then what's the point? ARX/LC/FP do what they say they will. It ain't much work compared to fixing a really old car for first line service.

He's getting the ARX rinse phase changed out today (1,300 mile/21-hour drive-time over 1.5 days) and getting back to me with elapsed time and fuel usage numbers. Looks right now as if the fuel mileage was going UP as he got into the hills (eastern "mountains") off of the flats as his average speed per tank was climbing . . thank you FP and ARX for cleaning out those chambers and ring lands. Again.

My apologies to the thread originator for dragging this away from his original question. Perhaps this recounting may be of some use to him.

The best to you, Tim.

 

[Tim]

TheTanSedan

I am with you, buddy. I love your regimen.

And congrats on the "newly minted" Marine Aviator! I am sure you are busting at the seams with pride!

As a former grunt, we would always rag on the "wing wipers" as we called them. But the truth is, there are no braver, finer friends to have when it hits the fan on the ground. Those Marine pilots have always had the rep for getting the lowest and doing the most good for the guys on the ground.