allen head vs torx head for red dot attachment

[CarLuver]

i have a few red dots on my handguns. they all seem to strip when i remove them to change battery or move them around. i use a torque screwdriver and a new bit and they still get rounded.

i was thinking why don't they use a torx head instead of allen. i could order replacement screws with torx head. any good reason why allen seems to be all they use?

 

[HankHill]

One of two things is happening: You're either using the wrong size key, or the metal of the screw is too soft. I usually, right away, but new screws for my sights... I put a super small dab of blue threadlocker on them too.

So yeah, I've never had a problem with factory allen heads.. I just replace them with higher quality hardware, because I'm anal retentive. All my screws on any rail, rings or sights get the new screws. If you prefer torx by all means go for it!

In the wild with other fasteners I like torx heads because they are quicker engage and they usually come with a few of the correct bits. I have rounded out allens but it always was the wrong size key.

 

[billt460]

One of two things is happening: You're either using the wrong size key, or the metal of the screw is too soft. I usually, right away, but new screws for my sights... I put a super small dab of blue threadlocker on them too.

So yeah, I've never had a problem with factory allen heads.. I just replace them with higher quality hardware, because I'm anal retentive. All my screws on any rail, rings or sights get the new screws. If you prefer torx by all means go for it!

In the wild with other fasteners I like torx heads because they are quicker engage and they usually come with a few of the correct bits. I have rounded out allens but it always was the wrong size key.

This ^^^^^^^^^

A lot of times it's the wrong size key. Some metric vs. inch will fit pretty close. But "pretty close" isn't close enough. An Allen key has to be an exact fit. Especially if it's subjected to any amount of torque.

Torx headed screws are better, but if you take care to use the proper size Allen key, and use a hardened, quality key, you should be fine. There are a LOT of crappy Allen wrenches out there.

 

[HankHill]

This ^^^^^^^^^

A lot of times it's the wrong size key. Some metric vs. inch will fit pretty close. But "pretty close" isn't close enough. An Allen key has to be an exact fit. Especially if it's subjected to any amount of torque.

Torx headed screws are better, but if you take care to use the proper size Allen key, and use a hardened, quality key, you should be fine. There are a LOT of crappy Allen wrenches out there.

Yes, this is true. My keys barely fit into the socket, and I mean barely. Some times I used "love" to insert them.

 

[benjy]

replacing sometimes cheeper small fasteners is smart as the smaller they are the better they need to be + a perfectly fitting tool is of course key!! reminds me of the upcoming brake work i have, the smallish somewhat rusted + deteriorated fasteners for the metal brake lines prompted me to get a metric set of flare wrenches + hope the chinese craftsman wrenches fit properly!!

 

[wpod]

I prefer Torx, I have had too many bad experiences over the decades with Allen head

 

[samven]

Torx are better but the number 1 reason small allen head bolts strip is because they were over tightened. A #6 bolt has a max torque spec for a hardened bolt of about 20 inlbs. If you had to turn the allen key sideways to get it tight you over torqued it.

 

[64bawagon]

They are more accurately called socket cap screws and they come in a variety of "head" styles such as button head, flat head or socket head. Allen is a trade name and they are not "bolts" they are screws.

 

[George Bynum]

Torx headed screws are better, but if you take care to use the proper size Allen key, and use a hardened, quality key, you should be fine. There are a LOT of crappy Allen wrenches out there.

There are lots of crappy hex socket screws as well as hex key wrenches. MOST US screws are superior to grade 8 and ALMOST NEVER strip with good keys. Until automobiles and Ikea started using soft common steel hex socket screws, I never saw problems.

AND, to the best of my knowledge, there are not any stainless versions as strong as the traditional materials.

The ball end keys are not suitable, IMHO, as straight. I'm in the hydraulics world where high strength and torques are the normal.

 

[Ws6]

i have a few red dots on my handguns. they all seem to strip when i remove them to change battery or move them around. i use a torque screwdriver and a new bit and they still get rounded.

i was thinking why don't they use a torx head instead of allen. i could order replacement screws with torx head. any good reason why allen seems to be all they use?

Every reputable red-dot/mount product I am aware of uses a Torx. Who is using Allen attachments?

 

[billt460]

Every reputable red-dot/mount product I am aware of uses a Torx. Who is using Allen attachments?

Torx are good, but they're not a cure all, end all. Just like Allen head, many are damaged by using the wrong size keys. Or broken off due to over torquing.

 

[Ws6]

Torx are good, but they're not a cure all, end all. Just like Allen head, many are damaged by using the wrong size keys. Or broken off due to over torquing.

There was a big push a while back to idiot-proof scope mounting. This resulted in two things:

1) Scope mounts that had ultra-fine gaps. This includes units like the Geissele. When properly torqued, I typically measure 0.004-0.0012" ring gap depending on the optic. This makes it literally impossible to damage most scopes even if the mount "goes solid".

2) Fasteners which will round when a certain torque is surpassed, with correctly fitted keys. I won't get into who uses these, as it's not for public consumptions, but it was specifically listed in the contract to have the fasteners fail to accept more torque past a certain point, and the fasteners are heat-treated/sized to fail precisely in this manner, which prevents the crushing of the scope tube.

 

[CarLuver]

update. bought the m3 x 8mm torx head off of ebay. came today. was able to torque them to 15 inch pounds with no issue . now i have a bag of 48 left.LOL

 

[billt460]

update. bought the m3 x 8mm torx head off of ebay. came today. was able to torque them to 15 inch pounds with no issue . now i have a bag of 48 left.LOL

I have the same when I bought a box of 50 Allen Head Cap Screws, to replace the slotted head that the older Burris Signature Rings came with.