All Weather or Winter Tires ?

Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Messages
227
Location
Lake Delton, WI
But, pay attention on tires and finding snow tire on Subaru is lottery.

I have a '21 Crosstrek. After my OEM tires are worn out I will be replacing them with dedicated winter tires. I have a summer and winter set of wheels, but I want to run the OEM tires till they need replacing first.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2020
Messages
405
Location
Great Lakes
Where I live I get about 75 inches of snow on average.

I use all weathers and run them year round and find then to be a too compromise. Currently running Nokkian Wrg4s and Toyo Celcius on AWD cars and head to areas that get 300 inches on snow. All weathers on AWDs is all I have ever needed. On the trucks I like the Cooper LT3s.

You won't get 60K miles on All weathers but can easily get 45K in them which is perfect for me.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2022
Messages
369
Nah, the AWD with AS in the winter crashes because they can’t stop or turn.

I’ve watched it happen so many times in Vermont.

Subaru, Acura, whatever, with AWD fails to stop, or slides off the road sideways.

Three common factors in nearly every winter wreck I saw:

1. AWD
2. All Season Tires
3. Flatlander* plates

There is no substitute for winter tires.


* Vermont vernacular for people from outside Vermont. RI, CT, MA, NY, NJ. They live where the land is flat and come up on vacation. It is not a term of endearment, and the local tow truck driver will use it when pulling your AWD vehicle out of a ditch.
Wasn't like that when I lived in VT in the 90s. Although there was a term leaf peepers. Tourism was the #2 industry back then, so out of state money was welcomed. I was fortunate enough to have had a season pass at Killington many years. I bet today I couldn't afford it, whatever the price may be.
 

Astro14

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Joined
Oct 10, 2010
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16,594
Location
Virginia Beach
Wasn't like that when I lived in VT in the 90s. Although there was a term leaf peepers. Tourism was the #2 industry back then, so out of state money was welcomed. I was fortunate enough to have had a season pass at Killington many years. I bet today I couldn't afford it, whatever the price may be.
Tourism remains a top industry for the State.

My point wasn’t disdain for tourists.

Just disdain for the dumb ones.

Usually with money to spend on new cars, new ski gear and vacations.

But not snow tires.
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2022
Messages
369
Haven't read all the replies, but if price is no object, a set of dedicated winter tires on factory alloys late October to early April. Figure at least $1500 but you could do the change over in your driveway in an hour. And the tires will last twice as long, being used only half as much. Plus greater resale value with the extra wheels or you could sell them separately when you trade it in.
I've done this since my first car, but it appears to be the exception today at least where I live which is Phila. But my personal experience is that my RWD toyota can't even handle 2" of snow on AS tires. We can debate until the sun comes up, but it's my car and my experience. I hate having snows on alloys. On the toyota product they become 17's and 225, when the summers are 18's and 245. The other car, also 225, when 255/225 summers, both 18s. So skinny, tall, loud, is better when snow on the roads, but severely worse on dry or wet pavement.
 

NO2

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
968
Location
Michigan
We've narrowed our search between the Altimax 365AW and Bridgestone Weatherpeak, but I am leaning toward the Altimax since it has better ice ratings. The Bridgestone web site, which may or may not be trustworthy, seems to to indicate that that ice performance is not as good. It's either give up ice or rain performance with any of the better rated tires. The CC2 seems to have a similar profile to the Weatherpeak.
 
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
478
Location
Colorado
I am looking at 2 options for a '23 Subaru Outback. We live in Northern Michigan, drive entirely on roads, and get a fair amount of snow (100"/yr) and a limited amount of ice. We travel south a few times per year and Michigan temps vary a lot during the spring and fall so we are considering all-weather tires.

Option 1: All Weather
a. General Altimax 365. Pros: Excellent snow and ice traction, less rolling resistance. Cons: Average wet and dry braking, average (60K) life
b. Michelin CrossClimate2 Pros: Excellent snow, better wet and dry traction, long life (85K) Cons: Average ice traction, more rolling resistance

Option 2: Winter tires / All season tires. Looking at Continental Purecontact LS or Michelin CrossClimate2/ Michelin Xice3 or Blizzak WS90 for snows
cons: hassle to store, seasonal changeouts, not ideal in varying temps pros: slightly better winter and summer performance.

What would you do? Please suggest different tires or a different mix.

I have the Michelin CrossClimate2 on my Toyota Highlander. It's a great tire; however, I just wanted to point out the tire life (at least for my tire size) is warrantied to 6 years/60,000 miles (not 85k). The only issue I've had with this tire is availability. I live in Colorado and there's tons of new construction all over. Builder crews don't seem to give any care whatsoever to securing loads so I have to replace damaged tires more often than anyone should. When it comes to local availability of the CrossClimate2 there's often a long wait. Even if I look on TireRack right now it presently says "Out of Stock" for our area. Just keep that in mind that while this tire is exceptional if you do ever need to replace just one with a road hazard warranty you might be waiting for stock. It's worth checking a few sources around your locale to see if they have it readily available in the size you need.

Prior to the Michelin CrossClimate2 I had Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady on this vehicle. I did not feel these tires did anything particularly well and would not buy them again.

Another option I haven't seen anyone mention, but may be comparable to the CrossClimate2 is the Vredestein Quatrac. It has a very similar tread design to the CrossClimate2, is also an all-weather grand touring tire, and similar warranty (8 years from date of production/55,000 miles). Unfortunately, availability may be a bit tough on these as well. Les Schwab sells them, but from what I've seen they charge a large premium on these tires over TireRack and others.

Last, I've never tried the General Altimax 365 AW, but I'll need new tires for my 2008 Subaru Forester soon and they're a solid consideration. There seems to be a healthy group of folks here that run them and are happy so while they may or may not be top performers in dry/wet they tend be priced at a good value even without a rebate. I take a lot of these online tests and reviews with a grain of salt because I think they can always be swayed by $$$. For instance, the Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady rates very highly everywhere, but I thought it was an average performer at best.

As some have mentioned here the Outback is a snow tank and while it's always great to get the absolute best tire you can these AWD systems really do an amazing job with lesser tires. Many years ago I had ran an off-brand all-season from Discount Tire on the Subaru called Arizonian Silver Edition. Nothing exceptional, but they got me through the winters just fine. In Michigan I imagine it's important to get an all-weather or winter tire that performs well in wet snow and ice.

Let us know what you decide and how it goes.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 21, 2022
Messages
2
It's either give up ice or rain performance with any of the better rated tires.

Look at the Hankook Kinergy 4S2. This is how Consumer Reports rates it:

https://www.consumerreports.org/pro...son-tire/hankook-kinergy-4s2-402882/overview/ ----

Dry braking - Very Good

Wet braking - Good

Handling - Very Good

Noise - Fair

Hydroplaning - Very Good

Snow traction - Excellent

Ice braking - Very Good

Tested tread life (Miles) - 55000

Ride comfort - Good

Rolling resistance - Very Good

Highs - Excellent snow traction and yet the a Hankook Kinergy 4s2 offers solid dry and wet performance, very good stopping grip on ice, hydroplaning resistance, and low rolling resistance.

Lows - Some tread noise.

So it appears that rather than trading off rain vs ice, they're trading off performance (in all weather whatsoever) vs tread life and noise.

The "Excellent" snow traction and "Very good" ice braking is particularly amazing because Consumer Reports does not distinguish tire types for their testing. I.e., this isn't "Excellent" as far as all-season tires go. Rather, it's excellent as far as tires go, period. This Hankook all-weather tire is getting snow & ice results that rival true winter tires, while still doing okay in wet.

Here are some more reviews:

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

https://www.autoguide.com/hankook-kinergy-4s2-review
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
888
Location
MA, USA
Well the real winter tires (Bridgestone Blizzak WS90 or Continental VikingContact 7) get CR "Excellent" in ice breaking.
But they get "Fair" wet braking compared to "very good" of Hankooks.

So there is no free lunch. There are trade offs.

Krzyś
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2022
Messages
2
Well the real winter tires (Bridgestone Blizzak WS90 or Continental VikingContact 7) get CR "Excellent" in ice breaking.
But they get "Fair" wet braking compared to "very good" of Hankooks.

So there is no free lunch. There are trade offs.

Krzyś

Fair enough. At least, the Hankook Kinergy 4S2 looks like it sacrifices as little wet and ice traction as possible, instead sacrificing tread life and noise as much as possible. It still sacrifices some traction, of course.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2012
Messages
888
Location
MA, USA
Problem with CR rating is that one does not know if the rating is bottom, middle or top of the score.
The neighboring scores may be on opposite boundaries of they respective ranges making them much further in real performance.
Impossible to tell.

Krzyś
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
421
Location
Cow Hampshire
Winter are always better in actual snow and ice however suffer in wet/slush/dry. However majority my winter is wet, slush and some snow/ice. I found Mich CrossClimate2 excellent even for skiing powder days to VT, ME, NH which have kitchen sink of conditions on way rain->snow.
 
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