All Weather or Winter Tires ?

Joined
Jul 16, 2020
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The Jonas Brink Estate
I am looking at 2 options for a '23 Subaru Outback. We live in Northern Michigan, drive entirely on roads, and get a fair amount of snow (100"/yr) and a limited amount of ice. We travel south a few times per year and Michigan temps vary a lot during the spring and fall so we are considering all-weather tires.

Option 1: All Weather
a. General Altimax 365. Pros: Excellent snow and ice traction, less rolling resistance. Cons: Average wet and dry braking, average (60K) life
b. Michelin CrossClimate2 Pros: Excellent snow, better wet and dry traction, long life (85K) Cons: Average ice traction, more rolling resistance

Option 2: Winter tires / All season tires. Looking at Continental Purecontact LS or Michelin CrossClimate2/ Michelin Xice3 or Blizzak WS90 for snows
cons: hassle to store, seasonal changeouts, not ideal in varying temps pros: slightly better winter and summer performance.

What would you do? Please suggest different tires or a different mix.
I use Firestone weather grip. All weather tires find it very good in all conditions
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2021
Messages
1,397

Wow that is brutal, I don't think snow tires would help much even in that situation.

Guy in the red jeep at 5:46 did a great job and interesting to see some vehicles ABS working overtime.

4.7 MM views for that video, nice!
 
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Joined
Apr 27, 2010
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Northeast


A vehicle is only as good as the tires . A.W.D. , tech or not . That's why the COOPER Evolution winter with studs are used . Help to get up and down icy driveway of a 30 > 35 degree angle . One early morning slid out into main road on black ice with BRIDGESTON WS60s ( or was it 70s' ? ) .Went to studded snows after and no issue . Little sliding , take time going down it when ice or snow . Did have to park at bottom a few times thanks to 2 > 3 " thick ice .

Without studs .

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With studs .

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Joined
Sep 5, 2021
Messages
1,397
A vehicle is only as good as the tires . A.W.D. , tech or not . That's why the COOPER Evolution winter with studs are used . Help to get up and down icy driveway of a 30 > 35 degree angle . One early morning slid out into main road on black ice with BRIDGESTON WS60s ( or was it 70s' ? ) .Went to studded snows after and no issue . Little sliding , take time going down it when ice or snow . Did have to park at bottom a few times thanks to 2 > 3 " thick ice .

Without studs .

View attachment 116972 View attachment 116973 View attachment 116974 View attachment 116975 View attachment 116976

With studs .

View attachment 116978 View attachment 116979 View attachment 116980 View attachment 116981 View attachment 116982
Do you buy the studs separately and install them yourself?
 
Joined
May 27, 2008
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Parts Unknown

They should of had chains/cables on, since I did drive in the area that day, and it was a R2 chain control that day. And the 4WD/AWD crowd get a pass, since R2 allows AWD/4WD with all-season tires. But that night, they switched to R3 chain control, which means everyone puts on chains/cables regardless if you have a Subaru or not.
 

Astro14

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Oct 10, 2010
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Virginia Beach
It defies logic, but I've been caught with my RWD Lexus on A/S tires and 2" of snow. The car has trouble. With the snows on all corners as is the way today, none. Again, it defies logic. Prolly with FWD or AWD one can get away with A/S in the winter.
Nah, the AWD with AS in the winter crashes because they can’t stop or turn.

I’ve watched it happen so many times in Vermont.

Subaru, Acura, whatever, with AWD fails to stop, or slides off the road sideways.

Three common factors in nearly every winter wreck I saw:

1. AWD
2. All Season Tires
3. Flatlander* plates

There is no substitute for winter tires.


* Vermont vernacular for people from outside Vermont. RI, CT, MA, NY, NJ. They live where the land is flat and come up on vacation. It is not a term of endearment, and the local tow truck driver will use it when pulling your AWD vehicle out of a ditch.
 
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
1,846
Location
9200' Colorado
The problem in reality is braking and handling. And that is all about compound. I lived in Detroit. I would never run vehicles without snow tires there. Actually, regardless that CO is associated with skiing, mountains, we have very nice winters, and in Front Range, it is much easier to “get away” IMO with A/S tires than any Midwestern or New England state.
Still, I run all vehicles on snow tires.
Edyvw is wrong. Colorado has the worst winter conditions you'll find anywhere. It snows deep year round. Brutally cold. The sun never shines. I warn you to stay away!;)
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
2,761
Location
Illinois
Classic mistake, mostly done by Subaru folks bcs. Subaru marketing (here it is Subaru graveyard every snow storm).
Sure, that'll happen when every other car on the road is a Subaru. I visit Boulder occasionally, and driving through downtown it looks like I'm driving through a Subaru dealer's lot LOL.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
13,462
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Suburban Washington DC
I am looking at 2 options for a '23 Subaru Outback. We live in Northern Michigan, drive entirely on roads, and get a fair amount of snow (100"/yr) and a limited amount of ice. We travel south a few times per year and Michigan temps vary a lot during the spring and fall so we are considering all-weather tires.

Option 1: All Weather
a. General Altimax 365. Pros: Excellent snow and ice traction, less rolling resistance. Cons: Average wet and dry braking, average (60K) life
b. Michelin CrossClimate2 Pros: Excellent snow, better wet and dry traction, long life (85K) Cons: Average ice traction, more rolling resistance

Option 2: Winter tires / All season tires. Looking at Continental Purecontact LS or Michelin CrossClimate2/ Michelin Xice3 or Blizzak WS90 for snows
cons: hassle to store, seasonal changeouts, not ideal in varying temps pros: slightly better winter and summer performance.

What would you do? Please suggest different tires or a different mix.
Haven't read all the replies, but if price is no object, a set of dedicated winter tires on factory alloys late October to early April. Figure at least $1500 but you could do the change over in your driveway in an hour. And the tires will last twice as long, being used only half as much. Plus greater resale value with the extra wheels or you could sell them separately when you trade it in.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
10,928
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Ontario, Canada

Yeah, in southern ontario, stuff like this is pretty rare on roads busy enough to have traffic lights. Not to say it never happens, but usually they pre-salt the roads or there's enough residual salt on a hill like that to have a slushy strip to hook a couple tires into... Also lots of our snow occurs near freezing so it doesn't take much salt to have an effect. Almost no intersections would have a grade right into them either. The one van there on the side was messing things up too.
Usually you just hook two tires in the loose snow at the side and drive down stuff like that, even put two tires on the median and ease your way down. I've gone down our 10% grade drive way with two tires on the bank when it was solid ice from freezing rain, as even our side road had been salted and the main roads were essentially wet and slushy.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
16,918
Location
Colorado Springs
Sure, that'll happen when every other car on the road is a Subaru. I visit Boulder occasionally, and driving through downtown it looks like I'm driving through a Subaru dealer's lot LOL.
Yep. And they are first in the ditch, closely followed by JEEP’s.
But, pay attention on tires and finding snow tire on Subaru is lottery.
 
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