all 5W/20's a synthetic blend?

[dave1251]

TomJones76
Member
Member # 2758

posted 28 March, 2006 03:18
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quote:
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Originally posted by blupupher:
No, not all are blends. Mobil 5000 is not a blend.
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There is a rumor that Mobil 5000 is actually Group III, which could technically make it a synthetic. Did we ever settle that? I heard yes from one jobber, no from another..
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Posts: 763 | From: Akron, OH | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged |

Who believed in that?

 

[Blue99]

quote:

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S-Oil in Korea uses Chevron's licensed hydrocracking and isodewaxing process to make their Ultra-S Group III, which is what ConnocoPhillips uses. Ultra-S base oils are not "cheap" or "low quality." What they blend this with is their own Group II, not "cheap conventional base oils."

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I think all of Ken's statements were fairly accurate.

(Hint - Do not confuse S-Oil with SK Oil, another Korean base oils refiner that runs the Chevron process.)

S-Oil in Onsan, Korea, does indeed run the ExxonMobil catalyst process, a more cost effective method for 120-130 Vi Grp III.

http://www.lubereport.com/e_article000113804.cfm

Per the 2002 Lube Report Article:

"Part of a 525,000 b/d oil refinery complex, S-Oil’s base oil refinery was the first in Korea, built in 1981. Before the upgrade and expansion, it had capacity of 12,000 b/d – mostly Group II and Group II-plus but also smaller amounts of bright stock. In late October, the company started the month-long process of installing ExxonMobil’s wax isomerization catalyst MSDW-2 and hydrofinishing catalyst MaxSat.

The new capacity includes 6,000 b/d of Group III stocks, although the facility will no longer produce Group II-plus. Officials say they won’t know exact product specifications until processes are fine-tuned later this month, but they say at least some of the Group III products will have viscosity indices ranging from 120 to 130."


And in April, 2005, a press release to announce the second train using an ExxonMobil catalyst:

ExxonMobil To Install 2nd Catalyst at S-Oil


The Shell Motiva, Port Arthur, Texas plant and the S-Oil, Onsan, Korea plant are the two largest Grp II/II+ base oil plants in the world.

Both run ExxonMobil catalyst technology and both produce 120-130 VI, low cost Grp III base oils.

I also agree with Ken regarding the ConocoPhillips Grp II that is blended with the S-Oil Grp III for Motorcraft, TropArtic, Kendall, etc.

It is a lower grade Grp II base oil, only 95 VI index from the Excel Paralubes plant, jointly owned by ConocoPhillips and Flint Hills.

Compare to the 105-107 VI Grp II produced by Motiva or even Chevron.

 

[ImaginThat]

Funny how that cheap lower grade blend of Motorcraft (Conoco) oil can preform to the standards of lets say 5 buck "true synthetic" for less than half the price in a 5000 mile stretch. And for my applications I've run the SM GF4 Chevron, Havoline, Castrol even Valvoline and Mobil dino's and 3000 miles give or take a couple of hundred was all that I was willing to let them run based on the sound of the engine. How you guys stretch them out to 5000 is beyond me. Heck I can get the 49 cent Chevron, or whatever else Schuck's puts on sale, but I like my cheap low grade blend. Let'em dump all the Group III in that they want too, because it is just as good as that "true synthetic" they dump in those 3.25 to 4 buck bottles.

 

[JohnnyO]

quote:

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Originally posted by GoldenRod:
Is MC 10w30 a blend?

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It is now.

 

[G-MAN]

Blue99, that's my bad. I was thinking about SK.

ExcelParalubes uses Chevron's catalysts technology, so they should be capable of producing higher VI Group II than 95.

 

[06RANGER]

So is 5w-20 havoline, pennzoil, castrol, chevron supreme, etc.. all sythetic blends?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by 06RANGER:
So is 5w-20 havoline, pennzoil, castrol, chevron supreme, etc.. all sythetic blends?

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Best guess:

Havoline: No (made from Group II+)
Pennzoil: No (made from Group II+)
Castrol: Maybe (made from Group II/III)
Chevron: No: (made from Group II+)

 

[Auto-Union]

This question is basicly an exercise in splitting hairs. SynBlend is a marketing term and not a reference point for BitOGers.

 

[speedtc]

Valvoline 5w20 dino has synthetic in it.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by TomJones76:

quote:

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Originally posted by dave1251:
SNIP
Who believed in that? SNIP

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dave,

I heard that so long ago that I don't even remember who said it. Sorry. I remember at one point being under the impression that ExxonMobil might be selling Grp III in their cheapest oil.

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George, who is an XOM distributor, posted it. As I stated at the time, given XOM's catalyst system it is entirely plausible that it is just as cost effective for them to produce relatively low VI (~120) Group III to make oils that meet GF-4 as it would be to produce Group II+ with a VI of ~110-119.

This does NOT mean that Mobil Clean 5000 will perform like an oil made from 140 VI Group III (like PetroCanada's or Shell's XHVI). These base oils will pretty much match PAO and are expensive to produce. A 120 VI Group III won't, but it is much better than your run of the mill Group II.

 

[TomJones76]

quote:

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Originally posted by dave1251:
SNIP
Who believed in that? SNIP

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dave,

I heard that so long ago that I don't even remember who said it. Sorry. I remember at one point being under the impression that ExxonMobil might be selling Grp III in their cheapest oil.