Alignment (SAI and Included Angle) way off

[mechtech2]

A loose or bent part, or a bad tire are things to be checked.
Is the car pulling, or is it that the steering wheel is not centered?
Since you really should get the camber equalized side to side, have it done and let them deal with the problem. A bad pull would therefore be their responsibility to correct.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A loose or bent part, or a bad tire are things to be checked.
Is the car pulling, or is it that the steering wheel is not centered?
Since you really should get the camber equalized side to side, have it done and let them deal with the problem. A bad pull would therefore be their responsibility to correct.


It is pulling for sure. The steering wheel does seems to be centered when the car is parked or at parking lot maneuver speed. The tire shop told me the only thing wrong with the car (after a test drive of at least 2 blocks on the street, right before closing on Sat afternoon) is needing a camber kit on the left for an on-the-border camber. I ask them in specific what else is wrong and they say everything is fine.

 

[PandaBear]

So today I bring the car in for the camber kit install, and paid $100 after tax and things, on top of the $80 or so I paid last time for the alignment.

What I can say is after the camber kit install and realignment, the car is no longer pulling to either side (not a huge amount at least, but consider the Corolla is not a very sharp handling car to begin with, it isn't much of a problem and is well within my acceptable range).

What I noticed before and after in the reading is that those "way off" numbers before and after are very different: 6 degree in SAI, 7 degree in Included Angle, 0.6 degree in rear toe (was ok before and way off right after the camber kit, until the alignment), and 0.6 degree in total toe (was also ok before and way off right after the camber kit, until the alignment).

Now that I am paying more attention, I noticed that the time on the original alignment sheet and the time they test drive the car (immediately prior to me picking it up) is about 5 hours. They told me they tried to install the camber kit but found out that they have a mislabeled part in the box, so it won't fit.

My suspicion is that they want me to come back to add the camber kit, so they intentionally or accidentally screw up the alignment after they found out they have the wrong parts, so that I have to come back and let them do the work. How else could you change the toe on the opposite corner of the car so much with just a camber kit on? Taking an alignment measurement and giving the car back to the customer with different result is just "wrong".


Before

After

 

[mechtech2]

People think digital tire gauges are more accurate. Must be... they read out to the 1/10 of a pound! NOT!
Having a fancy alignment printout with accuracy listed to the nth degree makes us believe the testing is that minutely accurate.
It is our best shot, but we can't totally trust them. I have not found them repeatable .

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
People think digital tire gauges are more accurate. Must be... they read out to the 1/10 of a pound! NOT!
Having a fancy alignment printout with accuracy listed to the nth degree makes us believe the testing is that minutely accurate.
It is our best shot, but we can't totally trust them. I have not found them repeatable .


So, alignment is just a "gut feeling" sort of art form, that a master with years of experience can do it right without trust worthy equipment? That is a scary though. I probably will never bring a car in for alignment again unless it hit the curb pretty hard (like my mom mistook the gas pedal as the brake) or after some suspension parts change.

Do you think maybe because they spend more time the 2nd time around so it no longer pull? Or is it really the camber kit that mysteriously fixed the 6 degree of SAI and Included Angle?

 

[RH+G]

I have two questions. Why is the toe in your after readings so far off. Also why did they take off a whole degree of camber form your left side. All they needed to take off is bout .5. As far as the machine being more accurate a newer alignment machine is more accurate and more consistent than an older machine. The tech just has to know how to use it. Yes if u do alignments for a long time you dont need as new of a machine but it will make ur life so much easier

 

[mechtech2]

Because alignment machines take STATIC measurements, they can vary every time you put the car on the rack .
BTW, I think your toe is set very well indeed.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: RH+G
I have two questions. Why is the toe in your after readings so far off. Also why did they take off a whole degree of camber form your left side. All they needed to take off is bout .5.


I was wondering the same thing about the toe between before and after also. Jump from 0.15 to a whopping 0.77. That corner shouldn't have anything to do with the opposite corner that the camber kit is installed.

Regarding to why did they take off the whole degree from the camber. That's because they installed a camber kit afterward. Honestly the original camber was bordering the acceptable range, and I wouldn't have add it if the car isn't pulling on the freeway. The after alignment shows it, the total toe is way off and causing the pull, probably from the right rear wheel instead of the front left.

Between before and after the car was pulling worst than before anything is even done, with that -1.43 degree camber, as the total toe of the after chart shown.

 

[novaracer69]

control arm bushings are worn.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: novaracer69
control arm bushings are worn.


Which corner?

 

[Rabbler]

Something doesn't jive with the story.
Either the readings on the first print out are wrong or they did some additional work.
You can't adjust SAI with a camber kit. Your SAI angle depends on your top and bottom pivot point. (Ball joints, upper strut mount)
The alignment machine is only as good as the guy interpreting the readings.