Alignment problem, or not?

[BearZDefect]

The Firestone Indy 500 set on my i30 have about 38k miles on them.

The tread is maybe a quarter worn. Yes, three quarters left. All the tread grooves, slots, sipes, and whatnot are still there on every tire. I have rotated them at least every 8k mi.

The problem I have with them that is prompting me to replace them is they are dreadfully noisy.

They were quiet for about the first 10k miles, then gradually the noise level rose.

I usually drive this car gently, occasionally opening the throttle wide on straight lines. It isn't a BMW, Honda, Mazda, etc - taking curves fast isn't fun like in a small, nimble car.

Inspecting visually and by hand the only noticable anomaly is mild feathering develops in use on the front. It only develops on the outermost 1 inch of the tread - only on the outside tread block. This is the leading edge (that hits the road first) of the block wearing more than the trailing edge, not a lateral inconsistency.

Does the vehicle have an alignment problem? If so, what is it? Toe? Camber? Other?

Thanks!

 

[willix]

Leading edge cupping would indicate toe issues. you need to check wear across the contact patch to see if it's consistant to rule out camber issues. with 75% tread still ther you may not visually see camber problems. Uneven tread blocks make tires loud.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Did you tried to rotate cross-X ? If the tire is not direction.

 

[BearZDefect]

HTSS_TR, yes, I did rotate the rear cross to front. These tires are not directional.

willix, thank you for the explanations. The uneven wear is slight, but I understand slight differences can make a lot of noise.

I will try a pin-to-pin measure to check toe one of these days.

 

[BearZDefect]

I looked at the Michelin S8 OEM tires on my wife's 2009 Sonata and found the same wear pattern on the outer tread block of the front tires. They aren't noticeably noisy at 14k mi total, rotated once so far.

Is this a normal pattern, and more frequent rotation the only remedy?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
I looked at the Michelin S8 OEM tires on my wife's 2009 Sonata and found the same wear pattern on the outer tread block of the front tires. They aren't noticeably noisy at 14k mi total, rotated once so far.

Is this a normal pattern, and more frequent rotation the only remedy?


To some extent it is normal.

As a block of the tread enters the footprint, it is deflected backwards. That causes the block to wear the edge in a rounded fashion.

When that same block of tread leaves the footprint, it will grip then suddenly release, which cause the block to create a little 'feather" on that end of the block.

So you'll have a "heel" on one end of the tread block and a "toe" on the other - which is where the term "heel and toe wear" comes from.

So this is a normal wear pattern, Rotating tires - particularly cross rotating them - changes the wear pattern a bit, interupting the noise / vibrational tendencies this type of wear generates.

More toe makes this grow faster. It's a matter of degree.

 

[BearZDefect]

Thank you, CapriRacer. Those explanations make perfect sense to me.

I will resort to more frequent rotations (including cross rotating) and may have the alignment on my i30 checked professionally when it gets new tires.

 

[Ken2]

Keep in mind that rotation only evens out uneven wear. If there is anything you can do to reduce the uneven wear in the first place, your tires will live longer. Sometimes the alignment for certain vehicles needs to be exactly in the center of the spec. Or at one end of the spec, but still in the spec (I often like maximum positive caster at the top end of the spec if it is adjustable, and moderate negative camber). Or aftermarket adjusters added if the factory cheapened-out on the alignment adjustments.

Could the tires be noisier because the rubber is harder after the 38,000 miles and how-many years? That has happened to me.

 

[1kickbuttranger]

Some types of tires tend to get extremely noisy as they wear reguardless of rotaiton and alignment.

Check the reviews for those tires at tirerack and see if others are expirancing the same issue.

A guy at work had about 70K on his factory tires on his hhr, and they rode good and quiet. He put on some brdgestone potenza G019 grid and almost instantly started to complain about how dreadfully noisy they have gotten in 10K. We read the reviews and you would not believe how many complains they have for noise.

 

[BearZDefect]

Ken2, I agree with all you wrote.

Yes, the tires are getting old and hard, but they were getting quite noisy before they were two years old.

1kickbuttranger, I do check high mileage reviews on tires before buying. Overall, the Firehawk Indy 500 had great reviews. Noise has been my only big problem with them.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Bear, just to add to what others have said, I've found that the outer edge feathering is very normal, and in fact, I haven't owned a single vehicle on which that type of heel-and-toe wear did not occur. You can often walk across any parking lot and see visually that wear on most other cars as well.

As many will say, even though a car is aligned within spec, the spec may not be optimal for tire wear. As you move closer to neutral on most alignment specifications (truly zero toe, zero camber, etc), the car's handling can begin to feel twitchy. Tire wear is often sacrificed for vehicle stability.

To be sure, certain suspension geometries are likely better or worse in this area of tire wear as well, in addition to the static alignment settings.

 

[BearZDefect]

Thank you, Hokiefyd.

The future will tell how my next set of tires does with noise.

No Firestone or Bridgestone this time around. I had Yokohama Avid ENVigor or Michelin Primacy H-rated in mind. Problem with the directional ENVigor is I can't cross rotate to balance this heel-toe wear. Problem with any Michelin is $$$.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Well, for what it's worth, I think you get what you pay for. I had some Yokohama Avid TRZs on my Corolla and LOVED them. Then it got cold, and those Avids hardened up like granite. They still gripped well, but their tread felt about as hard as a rock. The ride suffered severely. The ride was worse at 30 PSI in the winter than at 35 PSI in the summer. The Michelins on my wife's minivan feel the same year-round.

I'm not saying that the Yokohama tires are bad. In fact, they were very good tires. But I didn't like the compromises. That's something I will pay more for every time.