Alignment. Please help.

[Titanium_Alloy]

Hi,

I really need mechanical advice on alignment. Few weeks ago I noticed that our 1996 Kia Sportage pulls to the right really hard. I went to “Wheel Works” a week ago to have my alignment done. After they completed my alignment car still pulled to the right. So I went back few days later. They checked everything again. And again car pulled to the right. Today I went there for the third time with all specifications taken from service manual. First they said that camber and caster is not adjustable on this car. I showed them pages from service manual on how to adjust camber and caster. They said OK. I took my car few hours ago and I can’t get it. They adjusted to different specifications again. Sometimes car goes straight if road is plain as table, if it has some uneven surface it pulls to the right but not as strong as it used to be.

I list here specifications from service manual and what shop set up. I also list specifications which I think should be there, but I’m not sure. I would like help from a person who has any experience in alignment.

Thanks,


Recommended:
Front

Camber
No load 0.44° ± 0.5°
2 Passengers 0° ± 0.5°

Caster
No load 3.58° ± 0.5°
2 Passengers 3.58° ± 0.5°

Toe in
No load 0.09 inch ± 0.09 inch (not degrees, INCHES)
2 Passengers 0 ± 0.09 inch

Rear: Both camber and toe in should be 0.


Their set up:

Left Front Right Front

Actual Before Actual Before
-0.1° -0.6° Camber -0.0° -0.6°

3.6° 3.8° Caster 3.9° 3.7°

0.09° 0.22° Toe 0.12° 0.18°

Cross Camber
Actual: -0.0° Before: -0.0°

Cross Caster
Actual: -0.3° Before: 0.1°

Total Toe
Actual: 0.21° Before: 0.40°


Left Rear Right Rear

Actual Before Actual Before
-0.3° -0.3° Camber -0.0° -0.0°

-0.16° -0.19° Toe -0.20° -0.18°


I think that they should set up left and right side symmetrically. What do you think?
Front left and right:
Camber: 0.5°
Caster: 3.5°
Toe: 0.15°

Rear should be 0.

 

[Mike242GT]

Titanium:

When you say it pulls to the right, is this only when braking, or does it drift right on a flat straight road when you take your hands off the wheel?

Could be lots of things unrelated to alignment, such as worn bushings or ball joints, dragging brake caliper, unevenly inflated tires, etc.

BTW, it sounds like you need to find another shop that knows a bit more about your vehicle!

 

[mrchecker]

Have you moved tires around yet? Is the shop sure you don't have worn or bent parts anywhere? From my experience, this thing should be pulling left if it pulls at all, not right. Cars tend to pull toward the side with the most positive camber. From looking at the numders I wouldn't expect it to pull, it's not that far off and the fact that it's affected by road conditions makes me think something's worn out or bent, or maybe just a bad tire.
Something's fishy with their cross camber number, too. Cross camber is the difference between left and right camber, which in your case is 0.6 degrees. They say it's zero?
In a perfect world the numbers should be equal and exactly on spec left to right, but for what an alignment costs they can't make money that way. Try to find a shop that specializes in alignments instead of a tire shop.

 

[Titanium_Alloy]

Actually brakes are fine. They said that bearings need to be repacked. Tyres on the front are very good (80%-90% left), rear tyres also have about 1/2 life left. It pulls when I take my hands of the wheel on a straigt. Everything else in suspension seems fine. Car has only 65,000 miles. As I mentioned, third time adjustment seems to help a little bit. I guess they just don't have enough knowledge in alignment adjustment. That's why I wrote this post. As you can see Left Front Camber actual value is -0.1o. I read that most rear wheel drive cars (mine is only part time 4X4) have higher camber values. So I would expect to see camber degrees somewhere around +0.5o.

[ July 18, 2003, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Titanium_Alloy ]

 

[moribundman]

I'm not going to look at the numbers, I already got a headache, but did you consider a few of the things that contribute to "pulling"? Most roads have a crown, which makes the car pull to the right. Also, do you have directional tires with a symmetrical tread on that car? I have yet to see a tire with symmtrical tread that doesn't tramline. Especially, if the tread design incorporates wide grooves, it amplifies any variances in the road.

 

[CapriRacer]

First, everything about alignment settings is adjustable. However, it sometimes means BENDING things, and some shops can't, won't, shouldn't, do those types of things.

Also, the conversion between toe in inches and degrees is fairly straight forward. However what your place wound up with is acceptable.

Overall, I don't see where there is a problem with what they finished with, BUT they didn't do a good job getting the vehicle within spec limits.

However, there is more to alignment than what you've published. Thrust angle is one of the items that should have been delineated.

If I were you, I would step back and gather more info. When does the vehicle pull? Is it affected by certain roads? The wind?

Here's what I would do:

1) Check all the inflation pressures and put them EXACTLY to the placard. Take a ride.

2) Swap the front 2 tires left to right. Change? Yes - get new tires. No - swap the rears. Still no change - it's not the tires.

3) Check the suspension for looseness. I'm leaning toward a worn or bent component. Don't discount the age of the vehicle even though it has low mileage.

4) Ask around about alignment shops. There are no generalized rules about who's good and who isn't. Get a 4 wheel alignment. Be prepared to pay a bit more, but be assured it will be worth it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Titanium_Alloy]

Thrust angle is Actual = 0.02o, Before = 0.00o.
Total toe for rear Actual = -0.35o, Before = -0.37o.

Thanks, I'll try to check suspension more carefully.

 

[widman]

I agree with CapriRacer. After checking all the possible variables, there is a good chance something is bent. My 97 Ranger has to have something straightened out a couple of times a year (but we don't really have any paved roads). I'm sure there is equipment to do it in the US, but we start with a pice of string, pulled along the side of the vehicle. should normally be the same distance from front to back on both sides, and the string should be the about same distance from the four points it touches on the two wheels (like aligning two pulleys)
In 1991 (in the U.S.) I bought a 91 cutlass that Oldsmobile was never able to align. in 29,000 miles they replaced the tires 3 times, aligned it themselves in 3 olds shops about 10 times (once by the hunter people) and paid alignment shops to align 3 times. Finally gave me a 1992 that was fine.