Airshow demonstration not free

[mechanicx]

They're having the airshow this weekend in Dayton as they have for the past few years. It's $20 general admission and $10 parking. And instead of having it on a military base, which there is one in Dayton, it's at the Dayton airport so they can charge for it.

The main attraction is the Thunderbirds or Blueangels who don't charge for their flight demonstration. And to me a big part of the appeal of an airshow is the military base being open house. It was always free admission and parking too.

It doesn't even make sense to have it in Dayton and not Columbus like they use to being more central to the whole state. So a large, probably the largest population center, is going to have to travel ~150 mile round trip. That's another $15-$20 just in gas.

I guess this is the part of the new idea to privatize everything and try to make a profit.

 

[440Magnum]

Liability insurance for airshows has probably gotten insanely expensive. Especially after the tragedy at Reno last year :-(

At least Reno seems to have worked out a way to keep holding the races and shows, but its going to cost more. Just the way of the world, where everyone expects a nanny to take care of them if an accident happens, rather than just recognizing and assuming the risks.

 

[mechanicx]

But the airshow is not really a private show like that Reno show. The T-birds or Blueangels are the featured performer. Also they've been having it at Dayton airport and charging $20 admission and $10 parking for a few years now before the accident in Reno.

It's kind of analgous to the city providing July 4th fireworks and allowing some private venture to charge $20 admission fee, but really worse because there's no special duty pay if the event was on a military base as opposed with city workers.

Other states and cities still have free airshows on military bases. Hopefully this scheme doesn't start every where.

 

[bullwinkle]

They're just taking advantage of the name-when it was at Wright-Patterson AFB it was always the BIGGEST air show anywhere around, now that they've moved it to Dayton International it's just a naked cash grab.

 

[HerrStig]

They don't charge DIRECTLY for their demonstration. Taxpayers DO pay for it, one way or another.

 

[JHZR2]

Id imagine that with all the stuff at WPAFB, and given security concerns, it is more convenient to have it at a more open place, or one that has more security screening capability (personnel)???

Also I suppose they would want it closer to the mil-spec runways and JP-8 supply that is needed for the planes.

 

[440Magnum]

Private or not, the underlying expenses just keep rising. Insurance has to be in place either way, the government can't always afford to "self-insure" like it used to.

 

[MNgopher]

To be blunt, putting on an exhibition on this scale requires a tremendous amount of resources and money to make it happen. Why shouldn't the people partaking of the event participate in the cost?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I guess this is the part of the new idea to privatize everything and try to make a profit.


I'd agree with the posters about the liability costs. Since 9/11, airshows in Canada have been cut to almost nothing, with insurance costs cited as the reason.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
They're just taking advantage of the name-when it was at Wright-Patterson AFB it was always the BIGGEST air show anywhere around, now that they've moved it to Dayton International it's just a naked cash grab.


Exactly, it's taking advantage of the already tax payer funded military flight demonstrations and static displays. Tax payers are paying for the main expense of the Blueangels and Thunderbirds and paying for Wright-Patterson anyway. Now we are being forced to pay again to a private venture.

I don't get why some see this as A-OK. It's as bad or worse than a middle man charging you to see the July 4th fireworks the city is supplying. Is the military flight demonstration being held at the airport and are you being charged for admission and parking in your locality and are you OK with it? I doubt it.

 

[mechanicx]

Also the whole justification in the first place for tax funding of the military flight demonstration teams is recruitment promotion, not to draw a crowd for a private show organizer. The fairly steep admission prices charged by and paid to the organizer is a deterent to drawing a larger number of spectators, particularly the young and not well off, for recruitment.

As far as security and personel, what little security provided at the airport is mostly volunteers and junior guard and reserve volunteers anyway. Oh yeah and Dayton fire and police. As far as I know the city of Dayton is covering that.

 

[MNgopher]

So don't go. Problem solved.

There are real and substantial costs for putting on this show. Who organizes it? Who pays all the costs associated with it?

Should taxpayers foot those bills too?

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
So don't go. Problem solved.

There are real and substantial costs for putting on this show. Who organizes it? Who pays all the costs associated with it?

Should taxpayers foot those bills too?


So you call paying once for something and not getting it if you choose not to pay again is problem solved? Why do you keep ignoring the fact that main parts and costs constituting the airshow are already being funded for recruitment reasons and there's no proof that anything is being saved over the cost of a military base open house?

Do you have to pay to see the flight demonstration in your location?

 

[Mr Nice]

No doubt, the Blue Angels are worth every penny if you need to pay.

Better than wasting $$$ at the local movie theatre.

 

[MNgopher]

Are the Blue Angels organizing the entire air show (not just their demonstration)? Are they resposible for logistics for the 65,000 people (best estimate I could find of last years show attendance on short notice) who attend the show? Or are the Blue Angels there at the invitation of the show organizers?

If you don't feel you want to pay for the show, the Blue Angels participate in 34 shows a year I believe. Perhaps one of them is "free" but not in your backyard. There are a lot of things I pay for I don't get to see with my taxes.

Yes, airshows cost money around here, and no, that's not new.

 

[MNgopher]

A little research. From a newspaper article from last year:

"With a $1.6 million operating budget, the annual July program is actually a non-profit community event. Sponsorship accounts for only one quarter of that dollar amount with the remaining 75% made up in admission prices and other areas."

From: http://tippnews.com/local/volunteer-staff-keeps-air-show-aloft/

Where should that budget come from if they didn't charge admission? What was that about making a profit for a private show organizer?

 

[MNgopher]

It boils down to this:

You view the Blue Angels as "The Airshow". Thus, since they are taxpayer supported, the show should be free.

The flip side of that is without "The Airshow", the Blue Angels likely wouldn't be there at all. Somebody has to support that cost. The military base that used to do it for free no longer does. Was that for cost reasons? Security reasons? We do not know.

Personally, I don't think its too much to ask that people who are interested in attending support some of the cost of the event. Is that any different than our national parks and recreation areas charging admission fees?

 

[mechanicx]

Wright-Patt has an annual "free" open house and concert in June with flyovers but no flight demonstration. The flight demonstration could be held on the base. There is no real savings to anyone.

Allowing this private non-profit organization to produce the show and charge admission is just a freebie to that organization. Non-profit doesn't change the fact that its administrators can make a lot of money in salary. The flight demonstration command shouldn't agree to this because they could draw a larger audience for recruitment if it was held on a base without charging extra for admission.

Most other cities near a military base have the military flight demonstration on a military base without charging additional fees, as military bases already have military members and personel funded.

I guess by your reasoning people should also start paying admission to a private organization in addition to their city taxes to see the 4th of July fireworks too.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
No doubt, the Blue Angels are worth every penny if you need to pay.

Better than wasting $$$ at the local movie theatre.


I use to think the Blues Angels were better than the Thunderbirds, but I saw the Thunderbirds last year and the Blue Angels the year before and I thought the Thundrbirds were a better show.

 

[MNgopher]

n