4WD
$50 site donor 2024
The real cattle event is when you disembark … would have to regulate that in all seriousness
Airline Fleet/Management in a crisis
- Thread starter Astro14
- Start date
This (pay-to-see) article claims Delta is working on a deal with Boeing that includes all Delta 717s going to Boeing and Delta getting 100x 737 MAXs.
https://theaircurrent.com/industry-...airplanes-flowing-to-a-collapsed-market/
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1252713947687346176?s=21
https://theaircurrent.com/industry-...airplanes-flowing-to-a-collapsed-market/
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1252713947687346176?s=21
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
Originally Posted by Cujet
snip
eND sNIP
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
I have noticed when the plane is on Shore Power and/or just APU, cabin air flow is greatly reduced. There is almost no airflow in the walk way to the plane. People loading, brushing past me, reaching for the overhead bins. Once the main engines start, air flow and temp control improve a lot. Loading from the rear forward would seem to be the best, but the first class passengers might protest.
So I would expect these times to be peak exposure.
Rod
Actually it is not a bad idea. The Business and First class passengers can hang out in the lounge until the right moment. Especially for business class, you have to endure all the Y passengers going by and on a wide body that can take some time. The passengers carrying oversized carry ons through these sections usually causes some disgruntlement.
Lufthansa starts from rear seats, at least last several years. It is much faster than any other airline.
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
Originally Posted by Cujet
snip
eND sNIP
I truly feel badly for the airlines, as enclosed areas are seen as very risky. Despite the fact that modern airliners do a superb job managing internal airflow, and therefore greatly reduce the risk of pathogens, when compared to a bus or train. I think the public is going to be generally reluctant to fly in airliners until it seems not to be a risk. That could take some time.
I have noticed when the plane is on Shore Power and/or just APU, cabin air flow is greatly reduced. There is almost no airflow in the walk way to the plane. People loading, brushing past me, reaching for the overhead bins. Once the main engines start, air flow and temp control improve a lot. Loading from the rear forward would seem to be the best, but the first class passengers might protest.
So I would expect these times to be peak exposure.
Rod
Actually it is not a bad idea. The Business and First class passengers can hang out in the lounge until the right moment. Especially for business class, you have to endure all the Y passengers going by and on a wide body that can take some time. The passengers carrying oversized carry ons through these sections usually causes some disgruntlement.
Lufthansa starts from rear seats, at least last several years. It is much faster than any other airline.
Originally Posted by E365
This (pay-to-see) article claims Delta is working on a deal with Boeing that includes all Delta 717s going to Boeing and Delta getting 100x 737 MAXs.
https://theaircurrent.com/industry-...airplanes-flowing-to-a-collapsed-market/
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1252713947687346176?s=21
More on this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willho...m-for-100-737-max-aircraft/#fbf35a841659
This (pay-to-see) article claims Delta is working on a deal with Boeing that includes all Delta 717s going to Boeing and Delta getting 100x 737 MAXs.
https://theaircurrent.com/industry-...airplanes-flowing-to-a-collapsed-market/
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1252713947687346176?s=21
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willho...m-for-100-737-max-aircraft/#fbf35a841659
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
What do you know about London flights ?
Originally Posted by 4WD
What do you know about London flights ?
I used to fly there pretty often. It's one of my favorite cities.
So, it depends on your question.
I can't talk about those flights these days, everything is upside down.
But in general, sure, what would you like to know?
What do you know about London flights ?
I used to fly there pretty often. It's one of my favorite cities.
So, it depends on your question.
I can't talk about those flights these days, everything is upside down.
But in general, sure, what would you like to know?
Last edited:
Originally Posted by E365
Originally Posted by E365
This (pay-to-see) article claims Delta is working on a deal with Boeing that includes all Delta 717s going to Boeing and Delta getting 100x 737 MAXs.
https://theaircurrent.com/industry-...airplanes-flowing-to-a-collapsed-market/
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1252713947687346176?s=21
More on this:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willho...m-for-100-737-max-aircraft/#fbf35a841659
Boeing needs 80 717s in trade almost as much as it needs a blue-chip airline to order 100 MAX aircraft.
Delta is known to be pretty tight with the purse when it can be and this may be one of those times.
That Boeing would even entertain this deal is a sign of their desperation, although even a bargain-basement net cost to Delta, which this would have to be, would be a vote of confidence in the MAX.
When Delta would actually need these aircraft is another question altogether.
Originally Posted by E365
This (pay-to-see) article claims Delta is working on a deal with Boeing that includes all Delta 717s going to Boeing and Delta getting 100x 737 MAXs.
https://theaircurrent.com/industry-...airplanes-flowing-to-a-collapsed-market/
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1252713947687346176?s=21
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willho...m-for-100-737-max-aircraft/#fbf35a841659
Boeing needs 80 717s in trade almost as much as it needs a blue-chip airline to order 100 MAX aircraft.
Delta is known to be pretty tight with the purse when it can be and this may be one of those times.
That Boeing would even entertain this deal is a sign of their desperation, although even a bargain-basement net cost to Delta, which this would have to be, would be a vote of confidence in the MAX.
When Delta would actually need these aircraft is another question altogether.
Like after 911, I will be one of the first to go back in the air when my customers and prospective customers are comfortable with me showing up. As an old school relationship salesman, I laugh when people say zoom meetings will replace the face to face meeting. Being a germaphobe for 20 years has limited my being sick even spending 2.5+ million miles in an aluminum tube and the airports/hotels/trade shows around the world. My biggest positive takeaway from all this is hope that if even 10% of the population keeps up the hygiene habits they picked up, the world will be a healthier place going forward.
Originally Posted by c502cid
Like after 911, I will be one of the first to go back in the air when my customers and prospective customers are comfortable with me showing up. As an old school relationship salesman, I laugh when people say zoom meetings will replace the face to face meeting. Being a germaphobe for 20 years has limited my being sick even spending 2.5+ million miles in an aluminum tube and the airports/hotels/trade shows around the world. My biggest positive takeaway from all this is hope that if even 10% of the population keeps up the hygiene habits they picked up, the world will be a healthier place going forward.
Biggest takeaway is how many people just realized that soap is offered for sale in regular stores.
Like after 911, I will be one of the first to go back in the air when my customers and prospective customers are comfortable with me showing up. As an old school relationship salesman, I laugh when people say zoom meetings will replace the face to face meeting. Being a germaphobe for 20 years has limited my being sick even spending 2.5+ million miles in an aluminum tube and the airports/hotels/trade shows around the world. My biggest positive takeaway from all this is hope that if even 10% of the population keeps up the hygiene habits they picked up, the world will be a healthier place going forward.
Biggest takeaway is how many people just realized that soap is offered for sale in regular stores.
I think Amazon would be willing to acquire any (e.g. United's) 767's for freighter conversion, and maybe FedEx would still be interested in converting some 757's. Anyone knowledgeable in freighter conversions know if there would be any interest in attempting a conversion on something small like a 717? The former Airborne Express used to operate freighter conversions of the DC-9-15; the 717 would be larger than that.
Amazon Prime Air has 767 and 737 in their fleet. I agree they might want to lease a few more 767s especially if some airlines want to get rid of a few.
Hopefully things turn around soon.... but I'm guessing it will take at least 2 full years to return to pre CV flight / passenger volumes.
Hopefully things turn around soon.... but I'm guessing it will take at least 2 full years to return to pre CV flight / passenger volumes.
Originally Posted by AdmdeVilleneuve
I think Amazon would be willing to acquire any (e.g. United's) 767's for freighter conversion, and maybe FedEx would still be interested in converting some 757's. Anyone knowledgeable in freighter conversions know if there would be any interest in attempting a conversion on something small like a 717? The former Airborne Express used to operate freighter conversions of the DC-9-15; the 717 would be larger than that.
We've already sold a couple of our 757 to FedEx. I flew the last flight of N568UA last summer. SFO-EWR. It's being converted to a freighter.
As the airplanes came up on heavy checks ($$$), we sold them. Now, I think we will probably sell them all.
But we don't get much for a used 757. Maybe $1 million. With engines.
I think Amazon would be willing to acquire any (e.g. United's) 767's for freighter conversion, and maybe FedEx would still be interested in converting some 757's. Anyone knowledgeable in freighter conversions know if there would be any interest in attempting a conversion on something small like a 717? The former Airborne Express used to operate freighter conversions of the DC-9-15; the 717 would be larger than that.
We've already sold a couple of our 757 to FedEx. I flew the last flight of N568UA last summer. SFO-EWR. It's being converted to a freighter.
As the airplanes came up on heavy checks ($$$), we sold them. Now, I think we will probably sell them all.
But we don't get much for a used 757. Maybe $1 million. With engines.
Originally Posted by Astro14
Originally Posted by AdmdeVilleneuve
I think Amazon would be willing to acquire any (e.g. United's) 767's for freighter conversion, and maybe FedEx would still be interested in converting some 757's. Anyone knowledgeable in freighter conversions know if there would be any interest in attempting a conversion on something small like a 717? The former Airborne Express used to operate freighter conversions of the DC-9-15; the 717 would be larger than that.
We've already sold a couple of our 757 to FedEx. I flew the last flight of N568UA last summer. SFO-EWR. It's being converted to a freighter.
As the airplanes came up on heavy checks ($$$), we sold them. Now, I think we will probably sell them all.
But we don't get much for a used 757. Maybe $1 million. With engines.
Boeing may be anxious enough at this point that a deal on a new-build 767F might be compelling enough that the conversion market tanks, since converting a tired 757 or 767 to freighter isn't cost free and the frame is inevitably up against a heavy check anyway.
Originally Posted by AdmdeVilleneuve
I think Amazon would be willing to acquire any (e.g. United's) 767's for freighter conversion, and maybe FedEx would still be interested in converting some 757's. Anyone knowledgeable in freighter conversions know if there would be any interest in attempting a conversion on something small like a 717? The former Airborne Express used to operate freighter conversions of the DC-9-15; the 717 would be larger than that.
We've already sold a couple of our 757 to FedEx. I flew the last flight of N568UA last summer. SFO-EWR. It's being converted to a freighter.
As the airplanes came up on heavy checks ($$$), we sold them. Now, I think we will probably sell them all.
But we don't get much for a used 757. Maybe $1 million. With engines.
Boeing may be anxious enough at this point that a deal on a new-build 767F might be compelling enough that the conversion market tanks, since converting a tired 757 or 767 to freighter isn't cost free and the frame is inevitably up against a heavy check anyway.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Well, I started working in W Africa in the 90's and all this "new stuff" started back then. I have never been shy about telling my family and friends to stopping rubbing eyes playing poker with cash … licking fingers to handle money … and those little 2 ounce bottles have been in my pockets for decades. Pump bottles on my desk.
Just read an aritcle that Lufthansa is thinking about bankruptcy. Article is in Croatian, and I am in a Zoom meeting sso did not look for English version.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Just read an aritcle that Lufthansa is thinking about bankruptcy. Article is in Croatian, and I am in a Zoom meeting sso did not look for English version.
Just saw this too. Here is a English article.
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/lufthansa-group-set-to-file-for-administration/
Just read an aritcle that Lufthansa is thinking about bankruptcy. Article is in Croatian, and I am in a Zoom meeting sso did not look for English version.
Just saw this too. Here is a English article.
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/lufthansa-group-set-to-file-for-administration/
Nothing wrong with bankruptcy, layoffs, reorganization, trimming the fat and renegotiate their financial obligations if they want to save the airline.
This goes for any airline that wants to remain in business 3 years from now.
This goes for any airline that wants to remain in business 3 years from now.
If you had already been through a bankruptcy.
Had your pension eliminated
Took a 65% pay CUT
And lost your position
You might feel different about them.
Had your pension eliminated
Took a 65% pay CUT
And lost your position
You might feel different about them.
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Nothing wrong with bankruptcy, layoffs, reorganization, trimming the fat and renegotiate their financial obligations if they want to save the airline.
This goes for any airline that wants to remain in business 3 years from now.
There are a lot of problems with bankruptcies. Seems to me answer for everything became bankruptcy.
There is always cultural, legal etc. pressure on individuals to have their finances in order, and we found out that actually individuals are running their finances much better than many companies, including airline companies. First and foremost, workers are going to suffer, a lot. Declaring bankruptcy has a trickle down effect on other businesses. Maybe if we start to held accountable management, things would be different. For example Wizz Air in Europe said that they could run year a half like this before they run out of cash. Maybe management of various companies that rush to governments to beg for money before government figured out how to help individuals, should answer why their companies do not have cash reserves. Lufthansa was on buying spree throughout Europe last decade+. They own half of European companies. They have monopoly in much of Central and Eastern Europe. Nothing happens without Lufthansa in much of Europe, and yet, here we are.
Same goes for various US companies.
Nothing wrong with bankruptcy, layoffs, reorganization, trimming the fat and renegotiate their financial obligations if they want to save the airline.
This goes for any airline that wants to remain in business 3 years from now.
There are a lot of problems with bankruptcies. Seems to me answer for everything became bankruptcy.
There is always cultural, legal etc. pressure on individuals to have their finances in order, and we found out that actually individuals are running their finances much better than many companies, including airline companies. First and foremost, workers are going to suffer, a lot. Declaring bankruptcy has a trickle down effect on other businesses. Maybe if we start to held accountable management, things would be different. For example Wizz Air in Europe said that they could run year a half like this before they run out of cash. Maybe management of various companies that rush to governments to beg for money before government figured out how to help individuals, should answer why their companies do not have cash reserves. Lufthansa was on buying spree throughout Europe last decade+. They own half of European companies. They have monopoly in much of Central and Eastern Europe. Nothing happens without Lufthansa in much of Europe, and yet, here we are.
Same goes for various US companies.
Entire Delta MD-88/90 fleet officially retires in June 2020.
https://news.delta.com/delta-retire-md-88-md-90-fleets-june
https://news.delta.com/delta-retire-md-88-md-90-fleets-june
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