Aircraft carrier collides with cargo ship? How does this happen?

Something I learned in the Marines: “You can delegate authority but you can’t delegate responsibility.” The sad part in some of these cases is that it ends otherwise good careers and I believe that many good leaders choose to leave rather than pursue a career for that reason.
I turned down many promotions on the job (not military) for similar reasons. I would take my bosses places when they took off. But I refused to stick my neck out and be held totally responsible for an entire crew. Some of which could care less about the quality of their work or the safety of their coworkers.
It’s possible the AIS switch had a loose connection….. :unsure:



The US Navy does NOT want people knowing the location of their carriers, same goes for our nuclear submarine fleet.

USA has surveillance ’cables’ on the bottom of all the 5 ocean floors throughout the globe and they track all Russian submarines. They can even tell the difference between noise from a Russian submarine, group of whales or seismic shifts on ocean floor. Advanced satellites are tracking our enemies.

24/7/365 the USA knows where everything and everyone is at in real-time. No hiding !!!!
We don’t want our enemies to know our location.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borders_of_the_oceans
If our enemies can not eavesdrop on us thru them I suppose that is when they then attempt to drag or damage the cables. I been reading reports on Russia and China hanging around the cables and even trying to use so called fishing fleets to catch onto them and drag them with nets or anchors in recent years.
 
Spent a fair bit of time aboard the bridge of a variety of vessels, AIS on or off the radars still see the ships around and generate tracks. Between that and the ECDIS the crew has excellent situational awareness. AIS on or off almost irrelevant for avoiding collisions.

jeff
Absolutly! Agree that thier location should be off the grid. The us military has the best of the best equipment and someone (likely many crewman) didnt do thier job correctly.
 
This is my opinion here’s what most likely happened:


Destroyer had AIS on.
Carrier had AIS off.
Carrier (for obvious reasons) turned off all lights and traveling in the dark.
As mentioned before…. the carrier does NOT want anybody to know their location.

Destroyer is communicating (encrypted) with carrier off the grid and giving carrier updates of location of ships in the carrier’s immediate position (North, South East, West).
Very busy shipping lanes means increased risks of collision and danger.

Basically the destroyer is acting as a Scout and the ‘eyes’ for the carrier off the grid.

Destroyer warns the carrier there’s a merchant ship ___ nautical miles away from carrier’s present location and to keep ‘heads on swivel’ because merchant ship has no idea carrier is there and headed in your direction.
Somewhere along the lines of communication the carrier gets complacent and lets their guard down.

Dereliction of duty ?
Maybe alarm fatigue ?
Staff tired and been on duty for long time ?
Carrier not taking destroyer warnings seriously ?

The world’s most powerful Navy with the most advanced technology and war fighting capabilities has to do better. Zero excuses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Fitzgerald_and_MV_ACX_Crystal_collision


*** Edit ***
In my very first post I mentioned machine gun fire.
I wanted to say:
Carrier fires off .50 Cal warning shots so the merchant ship can see the tracer rounds in the dark. The carrier would have given their position away….. but not to the degree of popping flares. Just a quick burst of machine gun fire.
 
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This is my opinion here’s what most likely happened:


Destroyer had AIS on.
Carrier had AIS off.
Carrier (for obvious reasons) turned off all lights and traveling in the dark.
As mentioned before…. the carrier does NOT want anybody to know their location.

Destroyer is communicating (encrypted) with carrier off the grid and giving carrier updates of location of ships in the carrier’s immediate position (North, South East, West).
Very busy shipping lanes means increased risks of collision and danger.

Basically the destroyer is acting as a Scout and the ‘eyes’ for the carrier off the grid.

Destroyer warns the carrier there’s a merchant ship ___ nautical miles away from carrier’s present location and to keep ‘heads on swivel’ because merchant ship has no idea carrier is there and headed in your direction.
Somewhere along the lines of communication the carrier gets complacent and lets their guard down.

Dereliction of duty ?
Maybe alarm fatigue ?
Staff tired and been on duty for long time ?
Carrier not taking destroyer warnings seriously ?

The world’s more powerful Navy with the most advanced technology and war fighting capabilities has to do better. Zero excuses.

*** Edit ***
In my very first post I mentioned machine gun fire.
I wanted to say:
Carrier fires off .50 Cal warning shots so the merchant ship can see the tracer rounds in the dark. The carrier would have given their position away but not to the degree of popping flares.

it's all irrelevant when you will be leading a convoy into a narrow canal with no manoeuvering room in the next hour or so. There's no hiding there.
 
Read my post # 9 in this thread about the USS Fitzgerald collision.
6 years ago I asked the same very basic questions….

Click on the
black bold letters, not the red colored web link.


This is what I wrote in post # 9 if you can’t open link.
———————————————

Isn't the commanding officer supposed to order their crew (officer and enlisted)..... "All heads on a swivel" when out at sea ????

Why wasn't the crew not doing their very basic job functions ????

A container ship could not be 'seen' by an American Navy destroyer with advanced equipment to navigate busy shipping lanes and not detect a very large distant, slow moving container ship ?????

Sad that sailors died due to negligence and crew letting their guard down. Jail time is needed for the people responsible for this accident.
 
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From wiki "Two Westinghouse A4W nuclear reactors are used for propulsion, which means that the ship is capable of steaming more than three million miles before refueling. The ship has four five-bladed propellers that weigh 66,220 pounds (30.04 t) each and can drive the ship at speeds over 30 knots (56 km/h; 35 mph)."
This sounds correct. !0 to 12% is the range for a maximum, however things are severly stressed at this speed. so 33 to 34 perhaps 35 maximum. For those skepticle about nuclear power. I cannot recall an issue inboard a ship or sub in the us navy.

My uncle was stationed on the USS Nautilus. He was on duty as a chef straight out of B Camp and spend 3 years on station. Retired at 65 and was a life long military man. Was a Commander. Lived to be 85 and died from a heart attack clogged arteries. Tom was a good man.

The technology is frightening but have amassed thousands and thousands of combined years of service
 
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I forgot about the USS John S. McCain collision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_and_Alnic_MC_collision


I have a feeling the Navy has a fast track promotion system for some folks who should NOT be a commanding officer of any ship in the fleet. Very troubling info is discovered after an investigation.

Worst part is people are allowed to retire and not face any UCMJ charges. :(
For lack of better judgement i am commenting on this. (debbie Downer). Hire me because im not the best canidate but because other feel its right. Hire me because I say I have proven myself and if i havent, the hiring commitee that has accepted the responsability for my hire, should bear some responsability. If harm was done, "others" should at (at minumum) be questioned as to the defeciencies noted.

I had a xo that was a womaniser, at least once that i know of missed the ship when it went underway, was not a good role model to his subordinates. Boasted of his accomplishments and bashed those that showed even the slightest weakness (in his view). His uncle was an admiral. He was Teflon. O, and he knew it.
 
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Thanks for the explanation. (y)

I added USS Cole comment after you pressed the reply tab.

I know they are not in a war zone but they can NOT be complacent and must be proactive with security.
Also very careful because US Navy blew up an Iranian airliner inadvertently. Fine balance , glad no one hurt this time except pride.
 
I found an article with some picks of the damage. The damage to the carrier seems to be "kinda" superficial and the article says that it doesn't affect flight operations. The photos and article are in the link below. I'm not 100% sure but it looks like the deck under the rearmost F-18 might be buckled up a bit? It could just be an optical illusion, though.

332365.avif


332367.avif



https://www.the-express.com/news/us-news/163922/photos-damage-uss-truman-ship-collision-navy
 
I found an article with some picks of the damage. The damage to the carrier seems to be "kinda" superficial and the article says that it doesn't affect flight operations. The photos and article are in the link below. I'm not 100% sure but it looks like the deck under the rearmost F-18 might be buckled up a bit? It could just be an optical illusion, though.

332365.avif


332367.avif



https://www.the-express.com/news/us-news/163922/photos-damage-uss-truman-ship-collision-navy

As long as that elevator can still operate, the flight operations won't be affected. I assume there's another incinerator to burn the trash as this one seems trashed...
 
I forgot about the USS John S. McCain collision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_S._McCain_and_Alnic_MC_collision


I have a feeling the Navy has a fast track promotion system for some folks who should NOT be a commanding officer of any ship in the fleet. Very troubling info is discovered after an investigation.

Worst part is people are allowed to retire and not face any UCMJ charges. :(
I have a feeling that your “feeling” is not based on fact, time in the service, or experience on selection boards within the Navy.

Just an outraged call for somebody’s head on a pike. Nice. A reflexive knee-jerk over-reaction based on emotion.
 
I have conducted several JAG investigations. This is part of the UCMJ.

They are formal, they are legally binding, they are bound by policy, regulation, and the UCMJ itself.

It is important for people who have no familiarity with the UCMJ to understand a couple of concepts.

The first is what “in the line of duty“ actually means. If a person was carrying out their orders, and they were not absent, or engaged in willful misconduct, then generally, the performance of their tasks is “in the line of duty. Meaning they were doing what they were assigned to do, whether they did it well or not.

Second is the difference between a mistake, negligence, and willful misconduct. Willful misconduct, of course, is the most serious. The conscious disregard of guidance, regulation, procedure, or orders.

Big difference between mistake, and willful misconduct.

Again, we need to wait for an investigation to determine whether this accident, and the people who were on duty, happened to be in the line of duty, and were potentially guilty of an error, or negligence, or willful misconduct.

It’s also important to understand, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the standard to which commanding officers are held. There is no civilian equivalent. The people calling for a “head on a pike“ have never been held to the standard that a commanding officer in the Navy is held. A simple loss of confidence in that CO’s ability to command and that CO is summarily relieved of their command. That effectively ends their career.

You cannot fire someone in the civilian world so easily, you have to have a great deal more justification. And a firing in the civilian world has a great deal, less consequence than a loss of command does in the military world.

So, let’s stop calling for ridiculous, outlandish, punishments before we understand the facts of the case.
 
I have conducted several JAG investigations. This is part of the UCMJ.

They are formal, they are legally binding, they are bound by policy, regulation, and the UCMJ itself.

It is important for people who have no familiarity with the UCMJ to understand a couple of concepts.

The first is what “in the line of duty“ actually means. If a person was carrying out their orders, and they were not absent, or engaged in willful misconduct, then generally, the performance of their tasks is “in the line of duty. Meaning they were doing what they were assigned to do, whether they did it well or not.

Second is the difference between a mistake, negligence, and willful misconduct. Willful misconduct, of course, is the most serious. The conscious disregard of guidance, regulation, procedure, or orders.

Big difference between mistake, and willful misconduct.

Again, we need to wait for an investigation to determine whether this accident, and the people who were on duty, happened to be in the line of duty, and were potentially guilty of an error, or negligence, or willful misconduct.

It’s also important to understand, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the standard to which commanding officers are held. There is no civilian equivalent. The people calling for a “head on a pike“ have never been held to the standard that a commanding officer in the Navy is held. A simple loss of confidence in that CO’s ability to command and that CO is summarily relieved of their command. That effectively ends their career.

You cannot fire someone in the civilian world so easily, you have to have a great deal more justification. And a firing in the civilian world has a great deal, less consequence than a loss of command does in the military world.

So, let’s stop calling for ridiculous, outlandish, punishments before we understand the facts of the case.
Reminds me of a classic movie I saw about the trial of a ship's crew during the time between WWII and Korean War. The movie is titled : The Caine Mutiny. Very worth wathcing for anyone interested in what can all go into many military trials or court marshalls. Also how some of them can end in very shocking and different results.
 
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