dnewton3
Staff member
First, I ask first that this NOT become a topic of politics; this isn't about any party or sect. Keep it between the lines and don't veer off the road, please. I cannot emphasize this enough; I want this thread to be about how we define permissible acts, not about your personal bent against something political.
I am seeking opinions; there's no right or wrong here, but I want to give you something to think about, and then please answer AFTER you consider the inputs to the question. This is centered around the laws of the US, but I suspect our friends to the north are similar.
Definition:
"Young Adult" is anyone 18 or more years old, but also under 21, and of sound mind (not adjudicated unfit, etc) for the purpose of this conversation.
"Rights" are that which are allowed by federal and/or state law.
Background issues:
So here's the basis for context ... Many things are withheld from young adults, presumably because they cannot make a good decision for themselves. At least that's the explanation I hear all the time. Young adults should not drink; they are not old enough to make a good decision. Young adults should not be allowed to smoke; they cannot make a good decision. Young adults should not be allowed to buy firearms; they cannot be trusted to make a good decision. Some of the most fundamental decisions regarding health and freedom, etc are either removed from a young person's grasp, or on the table as fodder to be removed soon. There is a push in Indiana where I live, to up the smoking age to 21, and the Hoosier state is not alone here. There is a push in some states to up the age to purchase any and all firearms to 21. Yet, in many states, once you turn 18, you can choose to quit school even before you graduate. You can marry irrespective of parental consent at 18. You can engage in legal contracts at age 18. You cannot be barred from free travel at 18. Once you turn 18 you can waive your rights to counsel and silence at interrogation. You can join the military at age 18. You can legally terminate a pregnancy at 18.
Essentially, right now our nation and states have a hodge-podge of age-related laws that honestly can be called sanctimonious and dubious and confusing. All these things are major, potentially life altering decisions. So why do we have such a controlling attitude towards some "rights" and not others?
Question from either viewpoint:
If a person can be trusted to vote, wed and get a credit card, then are they not smart enough to make ALL the other significant choices in their life?
Or, conversely ...
If a person is not smart enough to make ALL significant choices regarding their own lives, then why do we let them vote, abort a fetus, and sign contracts?
For me, this is about hypocritical age discrimination. I don't really care if the age is 18 or 21 for these things, but I do believe we should be consistent in message and tolerance. My opinion is that if we can trust them to vote, they should be allowed to do all these things. If we cannot trust them to make their own major life decisions, then they should not be allowed to do any of these things, voting or otherwise. I advocate for a even-keeled system. I am not trying to remove any rights; only apply them in a consistent manner. Either 18 for all, or 21 for all. If I cannot trust you to pull a trigger, then I cannot trust you to pull a level in the voting booth. If I can trust you to buy a car, then I can trust you to buy a pack of cigarettes. If I can trust you to be accountable for your own tax filing, then I can trust you to sip your favorite wine or bourbon.
This isn't about the singular individual. We all know some really smart, savvy young adults whom are mature beyond their years. And we know some aged adults whom cannot be trusted to tie their own shoes. I'm speaking in generalities here. Admittedly there must be an age of consent for self-determination; the line must be drawn somewhere. Why is the line not a straight line; why does it snake around certain topics?
Have you ever tried to rationally explain to a young person why ...
- they can abort a fetus, but cannot buy a gun?
- they can marry another, but cannot drink champagne at their ceremony?
- they can die for their country, but cannot possess a cigar to celebrate their high-school graduation? (if they chose to finish school in the first place)
Why are we, as a society, so freaking full of hypocrisy in our approach to these topics?
I am seeking opinions; there's no right or wrong here, but I want to give you something to think about, and then please answer AFTER you consider the inputs to the question. This is centered around the laws of the US, but I suspect our friends to the north are similar.
Definition:
"Young Adult" is anyone 18 or more years old, but also under 21, and of sound mind (not adjudicated unfit, etc) for the purpose of this conversation.
"Rights" are that which are allowed by federal and/or state law.
Background issues:
So here's the basis for context ... Many things are withheld from young adults, presumably because they cannot make a good decision for themselves. At least that's the explanation I hear all the time. Young adults should not drink; they are not old enough to make a good decision. Young adults should not be allowed to smoke; they cannot make a good decision. Young adults should not be allowed to buy firearms; they cannot be trusted to make a good decision. Some of the most fundamental decisions regarding health and freedom, etc are either removed from a young person's grasp, or on the table as fodder to be removed soon. There is a push in Indiana where I live, to up the smoking age to 21, and the Hoosier state is not alone here. There is a push in some states to up the age to purchase any and all firearms to 21. Yet, in many states, once you turn 18, you can choose to quit school even before you graduate. You can marry irrespective of parental consent at 18. You can engage in legal contracts at age 18. You cannot be barred from free travel at 18. Once you turn 18 you can waive your rights to counsel and silence at interrogation. You can join the military at age 18. You can legally terminate a pregnancy at 18.
Essentially, right now our nation and states have a hodge-podge of age-related laws that honestly can be called sanctimonious and dubious and confusing. All these things are major, potentially life altering decisions. So why do we have such a controlling attitude towards some "rights" and not others?
Question from either viewpoint:
If a person can be trusted to vote, wed and get a credit card, then are they not smart enough to make ALL the other significant choices in their life?
Or, conversely ...
If a person is not smart enough to make ALL significant choices regarding their own lives, then why do we let them vote, abort a fetus, and sign contracts?
For me, this is about hypocritical age discrimination. I don't really care if the age is 18 or 21 for these things, but I do believe we should be consistent in message and tolerance. My opinion is that if we can trust them to vote, they should be allowed to do all these things. If we cannot trust them to make their own major life decisions, then they should not be allowed to do any of these things, voting or otherwise. I advocate for a even-keeled system. I am not trying to remove any rights; only apply them in a consistent manner. Either 18 for all, or 21 for all. If I cannot trust you to pull a trigger, then I cannot trust you to pull a level in the voting booth. If I can trust you to buy a car, then I can trust you to buy a pack of cigarettes. If I can trust you to be accountable for your own tax filing, then I can trust you to sip your favorite wine or bourbon.
This isn't about the singular individual. We all know some really smart, savvy young adults whom are mature beyond their years. And we know some aged adults whom cannot be trusted to tie their own shoes. I'm speaking in generalities here. Admittedly there must be an age of consent for self-determination; the line must be drawn somewhere. Why is the line not a straight line; why does it snake around certain topics?
Have you ever tried to rationally explain to a young person why ...
- they can abort a fetus, but cannot buy a gun?
- they can marry another, but cannot drink champagne at their ceremony?
- they can die for their country, but cannot possess a cigar to celebrate their high-school graduation? (if they chose to finish school in the first place)
Why are we, as a society, so freaking full of hypocrisy in our approach to these topics?
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