AftonChemicals, LSPI - "not just about Calcium"
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In the context of calcium as a detergent additive in pcmo, does lspi somehow fall into that discussion or is this company addressing lspi first and then talking about calcium second?
If ones goal is to pick a pcmo with additives that keep the engine clean, calcium would still be fine right?
If ones goal is to pick a pcmo with additives that keep the engine clean, calcium would still be fine right?
I rather think that LSPI under real-life conditions is The Myth.
Yes, if you over boost an engine where the piston lands lack sufficient mechanical integrity, I'll accept LPSI does damage. Yes, if you run an engine on a freakish gasoline with a particularly heavy back-end, I'm prepared to accept LSPI exists. Yes, if you happen to have a Ca-based engine oil that finds it's way through the PCV/Intake systems and the partially burnt oil-grot provides a source of pre-ignition, I can believe in that too.
But LSPI on DGI engines driven by normal drivers under normal conditions using normal fuels and normal, Ca-based engine oils?? Nahhh..I don't believe it. It's just the OEMs being their usual neurotic selves and roping in every other mug-punter to jump through the hoops of 'solving' their supposed problem.
Yes, if you over boost an engine where the piston lands lack sufficient mechanical integrity, I'll accept LPSI does damage. Yes, if you run an engine on a freakish gasoline with a particularly heavy back-end, I'm prepared to accept LSPI exists. Yes, if you happen to have a Ca-based engine oil that finds it's way through the PCV/Intake systems and the partially burnt oil-grot provides a source of pre-ignition, I can believe in that too.
But LSPI on DGI engines driven by normal drivers under normal conditions using normal fuels and normal, Ca-based engine oils?? Nahhh..I don't believe it. It's just the OEMs being their usual neurotic selves and roping in every other mug-punter to jump through the hoops of 'solving' their supposed problem.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I rather think that LSPI under real-life conditions is The Myth.
Yes, if you over boost an engine where the piston lands lack sufficient mechanical integrity, I'll accept LPSI does damage. Yes, if you run an engine on a freakish gasoline with a particularly heavy back-end, I'm prepared to accept LSPI exists. Yes, if you happen to have a Ca-based engine oil that finds it's way through the PCV/Intake systems and the partially burnt oil-grot provides a source of pre-ignition, I can believe in that too.
But LSPI on DGI engines driven by normal drivers under normal conditions using normal fuels and normal, Ca-based engine oils?? Nahhh..I don't believe it. It's just the OEMs being their usual neurotic selves and roping in every other mug-punter to jump through the hoops of 'solving' their supposed problem.
I too am beginning feel this way. How many anecdotes does it take to equal a substantial concern for OEMs and the consumer...
I rather think that LSPI under real-life conditions is The Myth.
Yes, if you over boost an engine where the piston lands lack sufficient mechanical integrity, I'll accept LPSI does damage. Yes, if you run an engine on a freakish gasoline with a particularly heavy back-end, I'm prepared to accept LSPI exists. Yes, if you happen to have a Ca-based engine oil that finds it's way through the PCV/Intake systems and the partially burnt oil-grot provides a source of pre-ignition, I can believe in that too.
But LSPI on DGI engines driven by normal drivers under normal conditions using normal fuels and normal, Ca-based engine oils?? Nahhh..I don't believe it. It's just the OEMs being their usual neurotic selves and roping in every other mug-punter to jump through the hoops of 'solving' their supposed problem.
I too am beginning feel this way. How many anecdotes does it take to equal a substantial concern for OEMs and the consumer...
I was hoping for more information. They say Ca plays a role, but limiting Ca is not the answer... so what is? I guess it's probably proprietary.
I asked in my previous post who uses Afton additives in their motor oils?
I guess that we can assume that Exxon-Mobil and SOPUS use Infineum additives since it is their joint venture.
I assume that Chevron-Texaco uses Oronite additives for the same reason.
I was wondering which majors use Lubrizol and Afton additives? Does anybody know? Thanks
Knowing this info would help when mixing oils (leftover odds and ends)...
I guess that we can assume that Exxon-Mobil and SOPUS use Infineum additives since it is their joint venture.
I assume that Chevron-Texaco uses Oronite additives for the same reason.
I was wondering which majors use Lubrizol and Afton additives? Does anybody know? Thanks
Knowing this info would help when mixing oils (leftover odds and ends)...
Originally Posted By: pbm
I asked in my previous post who uses Afton additives in their motor oils?
I guess that we can assume that Exxon-Mobil and SOPUS use Infineum additives since it is their joint venture.
I assume that Chevron-Texaco uses Oronite additives for the same reason.
I was wondering which majors use Lubrizol and Afton additives? Does anybody know? Thanks
Knowing this info would help when mixing oils (leftover odds and ends)...
Google Search on AFTON sublicence....
All the hits are mostly Dex VI, but with a bit of creative searching you MAY be able to find where a blender's certs are grandfathered from AFTON.
edit, Penrite are VERY transparent...
http://penrite.com.au/manufacture_approvals.php
I asked in my previous post who uses Afton additives in their motor oils?
I guess that we can assume that Exxon-Mobil and SOPUS use Infineum additives since it is their joint venture.
I assume that Chevron-Texaco uses Oronite additives for the same reason.
I was wondering which majors use Lubrizol and Afton additives? Does anybody know? Thanks
Knowing this info would help when mixing oils (leftover odds and ends)...
Google Search on AFTON sublicence....
All the hits are mostly Dex VI, but with a bit of creative searching you MAY be able to find where a blender's certs are grandfathered from AFTON.
edit, Penrite are VERY transparent...
http://penrite.com.au/manufacture_approvals.php
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If you use gas (0% ethanol) calcium is fine .most get a lot of etanol wich love water .calcium also love water
Magnesium also loves water
If you are interested in a research project go to BITOG folder: PCMO used oil analysis reports and graph all of the additive metals including calcium, magnesium, boron, molybdenum and sodium. You should begin to see a pattern from the various additive suppliers. The ratios of metals may be more important than the actual values. Don't assume that Shell is using Infineum.
So what is the best bang for the buck in a motor oil that "prevents" LSPI?
I have been running 5w30 Maxlife blend in my GDI Hyundai.
I have been running 5w30 Maxlife blend in my GDI Hyundai.
Well, I am aware of 3 recalls that were related to LSPI issues...the recent one for Chevy Malibus with 1.5l turbos, the one a while back for early Veloster Turbos with a 1.6l DIT, and Subaru Foresters and WRXs with the 2.0l FA20DIT (note the vehicle in my sig). Interesting that they are all fairly small displacement...those early Velosters were notorious for grenading engines badly, but there could have been some modding issues involved with some of the failures for those and the various Subarus. Plenty of people with stock vehicles were getting new FA20DIT engines, though, and I doubt the Malibu is super popular for modding.
I guess I am also curious to hear what Afton's answer to LSPI is, other than not being "limiting calcium". Other additive companies have been kind enough to share some real info that indicated that they found that increasing levels of ZDDP and soluble moly can help a lot, so it may well be that a "full dose" of calcium is fine given some help from other additives. I believe it was Infineum that shared a finding that sodium was a particularly nasty LSPI enabler given the presence of calcium, so it might be that just avoiding sodium-based detergents is a key...???
Luckily, we can soon start looking for oils with a dexos1 Gen 2 certification that shows they have passed some level of engine-based LSPI testing (believe it's in a 2.0l Chevy DIT). Looks like GF6 with testing in a small Ford Ecoboost is still quite a ways off. LSPI is still on my radar screen as long as I have a DIT engine, I'm sure many others who don't know or care about it will probably be just fine with similar engines.
http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/
I guess I am also curious to hear what Afton's answer to LSPI is, other than not being "limiting calcium". Other additive companies have been kind enough to share some real info that indicated that they found that increasing levels of ZDDP and soluble moly can help a lot, so it may well be that a "full dose" of calcium is fine given some help from other additives. I believe it was Infineum that shared a finding that sodium was a particularly nasty LSPI enabler given the presence of calcium, so it might be that just avoiding sodium-based detergents is a key...???
Luckily, we can soon start looking for oils with a dexos1 Gen 2 certification that shows they have passed some level of engine-based LSPI testing (believe it's in a 2.0l Chevy DIT). Looks like GF6 with testing in a small Ford Ecoboost is still quite a ways off. LSPI is still on my radar screen as long as I have a DIT engine, I'm sure many others who don't know or care about it will probably be just fine with similar engines.
http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
LSPI is still on my radar screen as long as I have a DIT engine, I'm sure many others who don't know or care about it will probably be just fine with similar engines..
http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/
May turn out to be the most prudent approach.
As for GF-6? looks like 2019 now. It just keeps getting pushed back...
https://fuelsandlubes.com/ilsac-gf-6-launch-date-likely-to-slip-to-2019/
LSPI is still on my radar screen as long as I have a DIT engine, I'm sure many others who don't know or care about it will probably be just fine with similar engines..
http://www.centerforqa.com/dexos-brand2015/
May turn out to be the most prudent approach.
As for GF-6? looks like 2019 now. It just keeps getting pushed back...
https://fuelsandlubes.com/ilsac-gf-6-launch-date-likely-to-slip-to-2019/
Originally Posted By: wemay
May turn out to be the most prudent approach.
As for GF-6? looks like 2019 now. It just keeps getting pushed back...
https://fuelsandlubes.com/ilsac-gf-6-launch-date-likely-to-slip-to-2019/
Ugh! I'll have 100kmiles on my DIT engine by then!!
I guess dexos1 Gen 2 went a lot faster because it's just Chevy calling the shots instead of a huge committee.
Thanks for the update!
May turn out to be the most prudent approach.
As for GF-6? looks like 2019 now. It just keeps getting pushed back...
https://fuelsandlubes.com/ilsac-gf-6-launch-date-likely-to-slip-to-2019/
Ugh! I'll have 100kmiles on my DIT engine by then!!
I guess dexos1 Gen 2 went a lot faster because it's just Chevy calling the shots instead of a huge committee.
Thanks for the update!
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