Advantages of Pennzoil Platinum(?)

[ncirish]

Before I make an irrational and/or emotional decision (no one on here would do that would they?) I want just a few more opinions on this oil. Right now I have narrowed my choice to either M1 5w-30 or Pennz Platinum 5w-30. Both of these will be at a 5k oci on an '06 Camry 4 cylinder with 1500 miles. From research on here it seems that M1 and toyotas seem to get along very well and M1 is very readily available at wallyworld, Autozone, AA, et al. BUT that would be the easy answer would it not? It looks like the new Pennz Platinum has a trick (or at least new) base oil (EOP), and is very comparable to M1. Johnny seems to think that it is a great oil but there has been comparatively little discussion of it on here. So what are the advantages of Pennz Platinum over M1 and vice versa?

Thanks guys!

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by ncirish:
So what are the advantages of Pennz Platinum over M1 and vice versa?

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None, except maybe cost. Pennzoil Platinum a little bit cheaper at my Wal-Mart than Mobil 1.

From the standpoint of performance, an EOP based oil should do just as well as a PAO based one, but it isn't going to out perform it.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Does EOP have the seal issues of PAO?

 

[mossad]

The guy working at Advance Auto told me not to purchase Pennzoil. He claimed about a month ago at automotive screwel that they placed several brands of conventionl oil in frying pans and the Pennz blacked and tarred really quick compared to the others. I'm almost tempted to try this myself on my outdoor camping stove to see if he is correct.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
Does EOP have the seal issues of PAO?

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Sure it would since, just like PAO, it is a 100% fully saturated hydrocarbon with no aromatic compounds at all. Some Group V in the form of esters or AN would have to also be used.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by mossad:
The guy working at Advance Auto told me not to purchase Pennzoil.

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Now there's an authority on what oil to use.

 

[LarryL]

I'm sure they used an ASTM certified frying pan. You just know you can trust your local discount parts store for all the latest info on engine oil.

 

[vad]

It looks like the only advantage of Pennzoil GTL is the cost.
GTL disadvantages: struggle to meet fuel economy, stay in grade.
Have very limited solvency for polars and additives.

Source: the last page.

 

[dkryan]

ncirish:

You'll be fine with either oil. For six months/5k OCIs, as I'm doing with my 2005 Highlander 3.3L V6, I believe your UOAs (if you do any) will look quite respectable.

I'm switching to Platinum 5w-30 at 5k on the Highlander and will perform a UOA after two 5k runs with it. Though I use Mobil 1 0w-30 and 5w-30 in my 2001 Infiniti, I have no concerns about the quality of Pennzoil Platinum.

There's basically been little discussion here because Platinum has not been out long enough for the users to get more than one or two (at the most) UOAs on it. The next 18 months or so should see a larger influx of UOAs with this oil.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by vad:
It looks like the only advantage of Pennzoil GTL is the cost.
GTL disadvantages: struggle to meet fuel economy, stay in grade.
Have very limited solvency for polars and additives.

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That would be interesting but for the fact that Platinum doesn't use GTL base oils. EOP is not produced by the Fischer Tropsch method and is not GTL. EOP is produced in much the same way PAO is, but the process is less costly.

As for your two supposed disadvantages to GTL, "struggle to meet fuel economy, stay in grade," please point out in that ExxonMobil paper where it says that.

Also "Have very limited solvency for polars and additives" can be said for PAO, EOP, and Group III. The higher the paraffinic content the lower the solvency, and when you're talking about PAO, EOP, and GTL, these are 100% pure paraffin base oils. Group III is typically 99.9%, so its solvency isn't measurably better.

 

[vad]

Here's an excerpt from a trade article from 2004 pg.3:

PAOs have long been the premier base stocks in terms of performance.
Although challenged by Group III stocks, PAOs still represent the superior product in the industry; however, Shell Global Solutions is developing a fluid to give PAOs competition from an economic and performance standpoint.

The fluid, known as ethylene-alphaolefin polymer (EOP), was originally developed by Pennzoil-Quaker State, now owned by Shell.
Shell recently scaled up a pilot plant to produce EOP, making viscosities comparable to PAOs, like 4 and 8 cSt material.

At a recent presentation in Ostfildern, Germany, a Shell representative stated EOP is synthesized from ethylene, propylene and butene using a single-site catalyst, and the reaction products from the process exhibit comparable physical and chemical properties to PAOs.
Even more, the feed stocks and manufacturing costs are significantly lower for EOP than PAOs.

However, some issues exist with EOPs that must be resolved first, of which additive solubility and seal compatibility represent the highest priority. Finished costs are expected to be 20-30 percent lower than PAOs for the 4 and 8 cSt material, with higher viscosities being as much as one-third the cost of a PAO.

 

[vad]

quote:

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Originally posted by G-Man II:
As for your two supposed disadvantages to GTL, "struggle to meet fuel economy, stay in grade," please point out in that ExxonMobil paper where it says that.

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The very end of the article.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by vad:
However, some issues exist with EOPs that must be resolved first, of which additive solubility and seal compatibility represent the highest priority.

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As I said, PAO and Group III have these same "issues." The article is pointing out these "issues" with EOP as if they are something new and potentially insurmountable. They aren't on either count. Any 100% paraffin base oil is going to have these "issues." And obviously the engineers at Pennzoil have addressed them or they wouldn't be using EOP in their new Platinum line of oils.

 

[vad]

quote:

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Originally posted by G-Man II:
The article is pointing out these "issues" with EOP as if they are something new and potentially insurmountable.

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Well, that's why I've posted the article.
I'm sure Shell has addressed the issues. Nevertheless, the authors felt like pointing those issues out.