ACEA question

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by Bjornviken
Originally Posted by StevieC
I'd run a Porsche C30 rated oil (It says A-30 on the Lubrizol site but it's a typo). It gives you everything you need plus better wear and sludge protection.
The soot thickening is only a minor reduction which is fine in your case because you aren't running crazy OCI's


Pretty good spec according to Lubrizol


Yeah I'm going to Run Amsoil 5w30 European formula in the better weather here to trial it. It's supposedly C-30 capable and the spec offers better protection than Dexos 1G2 and Dexos 2 with the only trade off being fuel economy which we know is a joke. Oh and it's 3.5 HTHS

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Ddub
Thank you for the input. Bottom line is it seems there is no detrimental issues besides a small fuel economy hit running an A3/B4 oil in a car calling for A5/B5, but there may not be a large benefit either. Seeing as how Castrol Edge literally comes in both specs and they are both 5w30 oils one would really need to pay attention when purchasing to make sure they are getting the intended spec.

Am I not interpreting the Lubrizol spider chart correctly? If I am, it seems to me there is a clear benefit in sludge, wear, and soot thickening (I don't even know what that is) for the A3/B4 oil vs the A5/B5, which has an advantage in fuel economy and oxidative thickening. Piston deposits is the same for both specs.


Actually A5/B5, per the chart, performs the SAME as A3/B4 with the added FE benefit and it will stay in grade longer. There are A5/B5 oils with an HTHS just under 3.5 and a lot of A3/B5 oils have an HTHS of just over 3.5.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the ACEA rating and instead pay more attention to the OE approvals. The OE approvals usually require performance that is over and above what's required of the base ACEA rating.


Which ACEA A5B5/A3B4 specs and which Lubrizoil technical sheet say so ?
Links are appreciated.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Ddub
Thank you for the input. Bottom line is it seems there is no detrimental issues besides a small fuel economy hit running an A3/B4 oil in a car calling for A5/B5, but there may not be a large benefit either. Seeing as how Castrol Edge literally comes in both specs and they are both 5w30 oils one would really need to pay attention when purchasing to make sure they are getting the intended spec.

Am I not interpreting the Lubrizol spider chart correctly? If I am, it seems to me there is a clear benefit in sludge, wear, and soot thickening (I don't even know what that is) for the A3/B4 oil vs the A5/B5, which has an advantage in fuel economy and oxidative thickening. Piston deposits is the same for both specs.


Actually A5/B5, per the chart, performs the SAME as A3/B4 with the added FE benefit and it will stay in grade longer. There are A5/B5 oils with an HTHS just under 3.5 and a lot of A3/B5 oils have an HTHS of just over 3.5.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the ACEA rating and instead pay more attention to the OE approvals. The OE approvals usually require performance that is over and above what's required of the base ACEA rating.


Which ACEA A5B5/A3B4 specs and which Lubrizoil technical sheet say so ?
Links are appreciated.



https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

2016 (latest). Overlay A3/B4 with A5/B5 Or look at the third post in this thread.

 

[Kjmack]

Any time i read a thread like this on BOB and other sites its always people looking to go to A3 from A5 .Is this from pure ignorance ?

 

[UNC063]

Yeah I'm going to Run Amsoil 5w30 European formula in the better weather here to trial it. It's supposedly C-30 capable and the spec offers better protection than Dexos 1G2 and Dexos 2 with the only trade off being fuel economy which we know is a joke. Oh and it's 3.5 HTHS
[/quote]

Yes the fuel economy is not really a huge wow. Running AMSOIL Signature Series 0w20 right now for the winter. But no snow yet...•

 

[StevieC]

I froze 5w20 and 0w20 side by side in my deep freezer to -30c and there was hardly any difference between them. I know this isn't the same as cold flow testing but it was good enough for me to use the 5w20 as it has better Noack for a 20wt, plus I was out of 0w20 anyway.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.

The Lubrizol chart does not tell the whole story because it only presents the spec requirements and not actual performance.
From what I was told by an oil testing engineer, while both a5 and a3 have the same wear limit requirements, an a3 oil will typically far exceed the requirement while and a5 oil will just barely meet it. Think of it as a test... Regardless if you get an A or a C, you still pass.

Now, does it really matter to your engine? He told me short term it doesn't, but long term (200k miles), it does.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Kjmack
Any time i read a thread like this on BOB and other sites its always people looking to go to A3 frim A5 .Is this from pure ignorance ?


There's a somewhat justifiable bias that FE/Emissions/pollution standards always sacrifice longevity.

If it weren't for these standards then we'd essentially still be performing 3k mile OCI's with dino.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.

The Lubrizol chart does not tell the whole story because it only presents the spec requirements and not actual performance.
From what I was told by an oil testing engineer, while both a5 and a3 have the same wear limit requirements, an a3 oil will typically far exceed the requirement while and a5 oil will just barely meet it. Think of it as a test... Regardless if you get an A or a C, you still pass.

Now, does it really matter to your engine? He told me short term it doesn't, but long term (200k miles), it does.



I remember reading about that years ago when C3 arrived on the scene. IMO for the overwhelming number of owners it's not going to matter whether an engine lasts to 275k (A3) miles or 225k (A5) miles because there are a litany of other issues (i.e. transmission) which will necessitate sending the vehicle for scrap before then.

 

[Kjmack]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.

The Lubrizol chart does not tell the whole story because it only presents the spec requirements and not actual performance.
From what I was told by an oil testing engineer, while both a5 and a3 have the same wear limit requirements, an a3 oil will typically far exceed the requirement while and a5 oil will just barely meet it. Think of it as a test... Regardless if you get an A or a C, you still pass.

Now, does it really matter to your engine? He told me short term it doesn't, but long term (200k miles), it does.



I remember reading about that years ago when C3 arrived on the scene. IMO for the overwhelming number of owners it's not going to matter whether an engine lasts to 275k (A3) miles or 225k (A5) miles because there are a litany of other issues (i.e. transmission) which will necessitate sending the vehicle for scrap before then.

Well if all of that is true , Then the minute wear protection of A3 over A5 means less oil used better gas MPGs due to less engine wear . Multiply that by 10s of million vehicles , thats a heck of alot of oil and gas saved .

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

There's a somewhat justifiable bias that FE/Emissions/pollution standards always sacrifice longevity.


Not necessairly....my Total oil is advertised as FE......but its C3/C4.....HTHS 3.5+
https://catalog.elf.com/en/products/buz/EVOLUTION-FULL-TECH-FE-5w30