ACEA question

[Ddub]

I've had to do a little first time research on ACEA specifications since we've purchased a Volvo S60. Prior to purchasing this car, I always used some variation of a Pennzoil or Castrol full-syn (in the correct weight with a premium filter) in all my cars and called it a day with OCIs in the 5K-8K range depending on the car.

The Volvo calls for a 5w30 A5/B5 oil, and the dealer uses Castrol Professional, which I understand is also the factory fill. The manual calls for a 10K OCI, but being a direct injection turbo, I plan to do 5K OCIs to play it safe and hopefully keep the valves and such a bit cleaner.

My questions: Am I understanding the ACEA specs correctly when I observe that the the primary difference between an A5/B5 oil and an A3/B4 oil is that the former seems more concerned with fuel economy while the latter typically has better wear protection? Also, any issues running an A3/B4 oil (same 5w30 weight) in a car, my Volvo specifically, that calls for an A5/B5 oil? I see that Castrol Edge is available in both specs. Thank you.

 

[zeng]

No issue running an A3B4 (of min Hths 3.5 and min TBN 10) over an A5B5 (of min Hths 2.9 and min TBN 8).
IMHO, this is good practice whether or not additional components protection is real or otherwise.

 

[kschachn]

The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:

 

[StevieC]

I'd run a Porsche C30 rated oil (It says A-30 on the Lubrizol site but it's a typo). It gives you everything you need plus better wear and sludge protection.
The soot thickening is only a minor reduction which is fine in your case because you aren't running crazy OCI's

 

[Kjmack]

I have the same car , I too have wanted to ditch the A5 for A3 but have not had the guts to do it for warranty concerns. I dont really care if i get 1-2% less mpg , im more concerned with long term wear . I do care about engine cleanliness though and i wonder which would be better for that .

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.

 

[Kamele0N]

A5/B5 is like your CAFE

You will get better protection with other ACEA specifications....

I want just to warn that "Low / Mid SAPS" alternatives are not so desirable if you cant get low sulphur fuel in your area!!!!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Kjmack
I have the same car , I too have wanted to ditch the A5 for A3 but have not had the guts to do it for warranty concerns. I dont really care if i get 1-2% less mpg , im more concerned with long term wear . I do care about engine cleanliness though and i wonder which would be better for that .


Did ya not see the post by kschachn?

There is no difference in terms of wear and A5 is less susceptible to oxidative thickening vs A3.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by StevieC
I'd run a Porsche C30 rated oil (It says A-30 on the Lubrizol site but it's a typo). It gives you everything you need plus better wear and sludge protection.
The soot thickening is only a minor reduction which is fine in your case because you aren't running crazy OCI's


VW507 is even better....if you can get it there...!?

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Did ya not see the post by kschachn?

There is no difference in terms of wear and A5 is less susceptible to oxidative thickening vs A3.


I highly doubt that HTHS >2.9 -

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.


Actually it is better because of B4 part...(diesel spec)

Those specs are always in pair ( or A3/B3 TBN=8, or A3/B4 TBN=10min)

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Did ya not see the post by kschachn?

There is no difference in terms of wear and A5 is less susceptible to oxidative thickening vs A3.


I highly doubt that HTHS >2.9 -


So you're accusing Lubrizol of intentionally misrepresenting the capabilities of A5?

HTHS isn't be all, end all. Application is what matters. For example there's no difference between Z rated and L rated tires if your max speed is 25 mph.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.


Actually it is better because of B4 part...(diesel spec)

Those specs are always in pair ( or A3/B3 TBN=8, or A3/B4 TBN=10min)



Actually per the Lubrizol performance chart there's no difference when you add B4. Starting TBN isn't everything either. There are high TBN oils which drop like a rock and there are lower TBN oils which have a slower rate of decline.

Play around with their comparison tool: https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


So you're accusing Lubrizol of intentionally misrepresenting the capabilities of A5?

HTHS isn't be all, end all. Application is what matters. For example there's no difference between Z rated and L rated tires if your max speed is 25 mph.


HTHS matters here because he has either T3, T4, T5 or D3, D4, D5 on his trunk doors

But I dont blame you since "you" are still mostly in a N/A gasoline age there

 

[Ddub]

Thank you for the input. Bottom line is it seems there is no detrimental issues besides a small fuel economy hit running an A3/B4 oil in a car calling for A5/B5, but there may not be a large benefit either. Seeing as how Castrol Edge literally comes in both specs and they are both 5w30 oils one would really need to pay attention when purchasing to make sure they are getting the intended spec.

Am I not interpreting the Lubrizol spider chart correctly? If I am, it seems to me there is a clear benefit in sludge, wear, and soot thickening (I don't even know what that is) for the A3/B4 oil vs the A5/B5, which has an advantage in fuel economy and oxidative thickening. Piston deposits is the same for both specs.

 

[Kamele0N]

If you like it or not.....A3/B4 is better for your TURBO bearings

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Ddub
Thank you for the input. Bottom line is it seems there is no detrimental issues besides a small fuel economy hit running an A3/B4 oil in a car calling for A5/B5, but there may not be a large benefit either. Seeing as how Castrol Edge literally comes in both specs and they are both 5w30 oils one would really need to pay attention when purchasing to make sure they are getting the intended spec.

Am I not interpreting the Lubrizol spider chart correctly? If I am, it seems to me there is a clear benefit in sludge, wear, and soot thickening (I don't even know what that is) for the A3/B4 oil vs the A5/B5, which has an advantage in fuel economy and oxidative thickening. Piston deposits is the same for both specs.


Actually A5/B5, per the chart, performs the SAME as A3/B4 with the added FE benefit and it will stay in grade longer. There are A5/B5 oils with an HTHS just under 3.5 and a lot of A3/B5 oils have an HTHS of just over 3.5.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the ACEA rating and instead pay more attention to the OE approvals. The OE approvals usually require performance that is over and above what's required of the base ACEA rating.

 

[UNC063]

Originally Posted by StevieC
I'd run a Porsche C30 rated oil (It says A-30 on the Lubrizol site but it's a typo). It gives you everything you need plus better wear and sludge protection.
The soot thickening is only a minor reduction which is fine in your case because you aren't running crazy OCI's


Pretty good spec according to Lubrizol

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Kjmack
I have the same car , I too have wanted to ditch the A5 for A3 but have not had the guts to do it for warranty concerns. I dont really care if i get 1-2% less mpg , im more concerned with long term wear . I do care about engine cleanliness though and i wonder which would be better for that .


Did ya not see the post by kschachn?

There is no difference in terms of wear and A5 is less susceptible to oxidative thickening vs A3.

How so in physics, everything else being equal ?
You may assist Lubrizol to explain, if you wish.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by kschachn
The Lubrizol Relative Performance Chart can help answer that question:


Blows the whole "A3 is better for wear" argument out of the water.


Actually it is better because of B4 part...(diesel spec)

Those specs are always in pair ( or A3/B3 TBN=8, or A3/B4 TBN=10min)



Actually per the Lubrizol performance chart there's no difference when you add B4. Starting TBN isn't everything either. There are high TBN oils which drop like a rock and there are lower TBN oils which have a slower rate of decline.

Play around with their comparison tool: https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html


Does Lubrizol say so , in the context of A3B4 vs A5B5 chart ?
That's not 'everything else being equal' right ?
..... or it is equal ?