AC not working

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wallyuwl

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I have a question about the air conditioning. My wife said a couple days ago it was fine, then all of a sudden stopped working while she was driving. So I'm thinking there is a major leak or mechanical problem with the system. I don't do AC myself (I changed a condensor once and it was a pain and and I messed it up anyway). It is a 2003 Vibe and the AC has never needed to be serviced before.

I want to put some dye in it. A local shop said they'd look at it to see where the dye is coming out and go from there. Otherwise it is about $100 for them to evac and put the dye in, then I need to go back in a couple days. I don't want to spend $100 or make two trips.

I'm looking for advice on how to put the dye in. My questions:

1) Do I need to fully charge the system with freon (including dye), or can I just put in some dye and one can of freon? This is just to see where the leak is coming from, so I don't want to fill it up just for it all to leak out if I don't have to. When I get it fixed they will do a full evac as well.

2) Do you need to put oil in with it under these circumstances?

3) How much oil (if needed) and how much dye are needed?


I was thinking of getting this, and using one of their $20 off $50 coupon codes (so $30 total). It has the dye and oil already in it (so question #3 is irrelevant). Separately, dye is about $7 and freon is $15 per 12oz, but no gauge (another $15).

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/...hTerm=freon+dye


Thanks for the suggestions.
 
My MIL's 2002 Civic did something similar. Last summer she came over one day and said it wasn't working; it was blowing barely cold air. I check it out and everything was fine; I got it blowing cold air. Earlier this summer she came over with the same claim. This time when I checked it out I found it to be blowing barely cool air. Fuses and everything were fine and I could hear the clutch engage. She took it to a local repair shop, they recharged it, and it's been fine since.

Could your's just need a recharge?
 
Sudden freon loss is very unusual; normally with freon loss the system will slowly lose cooling capacity over a week or so while all the blowers and stuff work normally.

Sudden loss is usually electrical; look for the simple stuff (blown fuse, bad climate control unit, blown fan control transistor, etc..) before looking at the freon circuit.

Make/Model/Year and exact symptoms (blower runs/does not run/runs only in defrost)(hot air/warm air/no air) will help in remote diagnosis.
 
As others have said, check the other systems first. Is the fan belt still there. Does the compressor come on?

In order to run dye through it, you will need the system to run, so its needs enough oil and freon. A lack of freon will cause the system to not even try to come on.

Sometimes you can see oil at the leak. The shop should have a sensor that can detect freon leaking out.

If they take apart the system, best to have them replace all o-rings.
 
I'll check to make sure the clutch is engaging. If not I'll check the freon (I have a simple low pressure port gauge) pressure to make sure low pressure isn't why the car isn't letting the clutch engage, then if that is fine I'll check the AC fuse and if that is fine replace the relay. If the freon is low then I'll go get some with the dye in it (linked above) before looking at the fuse/relay.

Does this sound like a good way to go about it?

I saw on one of the reviews for the relay that this was the problem with a Matrix (and several Camrys).
 
You dont want to spend $100???!?

I would learn to live without AC then. AC systems are complex, and without spending a bit of money either on equipment or a shop, you will mess it up, as you did on the condensor. Nothing wrong with not wanting to pay a shop for labor, but you are going to need to spend $ to do this remotely correctly.

At minimum you need a set of gauges that indicate both high and low side pressure. A dumb low pressure gauge, besides likely letting air inside, isnt going to tell you the whole story. And to just top it up willy-nilly based upon some stupid walmart bottle gauge is just asking for trouble down the line.

If it turns out that the pressure is low enough that the compressor does not engage, then you really want to do a full evac, pull vacuum and refill (after finding the source for the leak), because it is likely that you have moisture in there.

Being penny wise, pound foolish is bad economy on AC.
 
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
You're jumping to conclusions. Firstly see if the clutch is engaging.


+1. Check to see if the compressor is actually engaging. You can also buy a cheap low side gauge to check the static pressure to determine whether the system is charged or not.

Like others said, could be as simple as a blown fuse for the compressor clutch. A brief glance at Advance Auto's website shows the Vibe has 1 serpentine belt for everything, so that likely isn't the culprit.
 
The clutch isn't engaging and the system is charged based on the low pressure port (I realize this isn't perfect). It is probably the relay. I'm going to go get one and try it.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Like others said, could be as simple as a blown fuse for the compressor clutch.


Or a relay.
 
I replaced the relay and that didn't fix it. The compressor clutch still doesn't engage.

There is only one fuse listed for the AC in the vehicle's manual, and it also controls the power windows and locks (it is in the fuse box inside the vehicle, vs. in the engine compartment). Those work still, so that fuse is good.

However, I'm not sure if there is another fuse that is also responsible for the AC in any way?
 
Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
The clutch isn't engaging and the system is charged based on the low pressure port (I realize this isn't perfect). It is probably the relay. I'm going to go get one and try it.


Most cars have similar relays you can use as a test, like a horn relay.

Or you can make a jumper wire to bypass the relay all together.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
The clutch could have busted.



I am a member of GenVibe and also saw some posts there about this type of thing. I think the clutch is broken. I can turn it easily with my hand when the engine is off and my understanding is it should be very difficult to turn. I found a post on GenVibe on replacing just the clutch without evacing the system, but that is out of my league repair-wise and is an all-day project.

I found a used compressor and clutch on ebay for $90 shipped with only 68k miles on the loaner vehicle, and it can be here on Thursday.

Is changing the compressor a DIY job on a Vibe/Matrix (seems way easier than replacing just the clutch)? Doesn't look too hard, except I'm not sure about evacing the system. Then I'd get it charged professionally. Or if it is only like an hour job I'll take it to someone who will install the part I bring in.

Suggestions?
 
Since you'll have to have the system professionally evacuated, a vacuum pulled with a vacuum pump, and recharged, and I think some other things need to be done like changing the receiver dryer when the system is opened, you might as well just have a professional do the entire project.

Get a hold of Chris142 here; he's a professional A/C guy and has likely done this repair on this model of vehicle.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Since you'll have to have the system professionally evacuated, a vacuum pulled with a vacuum pump, and recharged, and I think some other things need to be done like changing the receiver dryer when the system is opened, you might as well just have a professional do the entire project.

Get a hold of Chris142 here; he's a professional A/C guy and has likely done this repair on this model of vehicle.


Thanks Drew, I will do that.
 
The pulley is easy to turn by hand but inside the pulley the clutch driver should not turn easily, but that points to a blown compressor rather than the clutch. I think you need to verify power to the clutch or jumper the clutch to batetry power before condemning it.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Since you'll have to have the system professionally evacuated, a vacuum pulled with a vacuum pump, and recharged, and I think some other things need to be done like changing the receiver dryer when the system is opened, you might as well just have a professional do the entire project.

Get a hold of Chris142 here; he's a professional A/C guy and has likely done this repair on this model of vehicle.


Yeah probably best to just have a professional diagnosis the system. It might even save money and time over replacing parts that aren't the cause of the problem.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
The pulley is easy to turn by hand but inside the pulley the clutch driver should not turn easily, but that points to a blown compressor rather than the clutch. I think you need to verify power to the clutch or jumper the clutch to batetry power before condemning it.


This is why I'm thinking to just get the used compressor, that way I'm covered if it is the clutch or compressor. I'm 99% sure it is compressor/clutch related. I'm going to get it done professionally, now it is just figuring out the details of where, using what parts, etc.
 
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