A couple people asked me why their ABS warning light came on during our arctic blast we had last week. Overnight temperatures here were -25F two nights in a row and the daytime high on the coldest day was -15F. The ABS warning lights went back off when it warmed up a couple days later. Any idea why the ABS warning light would be on during the frigid temps?
ABS warning light on because of cold weather?
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Kestas
Staff member
There are different styles of ABS sensors. Some, if not all, depend on the gap before the sensor. Perhaps the gap grew more than it could handle in the cold. That's all I can think of.
Automotive components should have been qualified to -40°. (Don't ask if it's °F or °C.)
I once drove to Quebec for a ski trip in my 1982 Dodge Omni. It got so cold the interior trim on all four doors cracked.
Automotive components should have been qualified to -40°. (Don't ask if it's °F or °C.)
I once drove to Quebec for a ski trip in my 1982 Dodge Omni. It got so cold the interior trim on all four doors cracked.
Maybe it's something electrical like a computer booting poorly due to a battery giving all it's got to start the engine.
I had a 1994 Saturn SL2 with a horrible battery that, if I roll started it with the clutch, would run the ABS light for that key cycle.
I had a 1994 Saturn SL2 with a horrible battery that, if I roll started it with the clutch, would run the ABS light for that key cycle.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by Astro14
I suspect that it's related to a change in tire inflation with that big a change in temperature. The ABS system is then, perhaps, seeing differences in rotation of the wheels during normal driving.
I guess that would depend on age/outfitting. The TPMS should flag that vs ABS if installed.
I was thinking, do we know if the ABS computer cycles the valves when booting up? If so, I wonder if the increase in brake fluid viscosity affects them enough to flag a warning.
An ABS code reader would be interesting to use to see what is being flagged.
I suspect that it's related to a change in tire inflation with that big a change in temperature. The ABS system is then, perhaps, seeing differences in rotation of the wheels during normal driving.
I guess that would depend on age/outfitting. The TPMS should flag that vs ABS if installed.
I was thinking, do we know if the ABS computer cycles the valves when booting up? If so, I wonder if the increase in brake fluid viscosity affects them enough to flag a warning.
An ABS code reader would be interesting to use to see what is being flagged.
Completely agree that the TPMS, if equipped, should show the low pressure. But Wayne didn't specify car age or model. I've only got one vehicle with TPMS, so I guess that I'm predisposed to thinking without considering TPMS...
Still, a temperature drop of 40-50 degrees when that cold hits, is going to result in a big change in tire inflation...and I can't help but link that change with the phenomenon Wayne is seeing...
Still, a temperature drop of 40-50 degrees when that cold hits, is going to result in a big change in tire inflation...and I can't help but link that change with the phenomenon Wayne is seeing...
More than likely just low battery voltage.
Originally Posted by mattd
If he is using nitrogen then the temperature should have no effect on inflation.
Uh....what?
If he is using nitrogen then the temperature should have no effect on inflation.
Uh....what?
Whipcitywrencher
Site Donor 2025
Perhaps some ice forming at the magnetic pickup on the wheel sensors.
I've seen weird stuff in ABS systems before and then it goes away. Both at extreme cold like this and extreme summer heat. Ford used to have problems with the ABS modules in the Windstar's, where the control board in the ABS module and would expand in the metal casings and short out and cause the light to come on. It could drive you nuts chasing phantom codes.
I'd have them visit an Auto-Zone or similar and have the vehicle scanned to see what codes exist to make sure it's not something major and then if it's a minor problem see if the light goes out after so many vehicle re-starts when the ABS module realizes the problem no longer exists in the milder temperatures.
And a yellow light is just a detected fault that needs to be investigated, A flashing yellow light or red ABS light (depending on the vehicle) and/or the Parking brake light coming on in addition to this when the parking brake isn't applied means there is a major fault and driving the vehicle could be quite dangerous depending on this fault.
I'd have them visit an Auto-Zone or similar and have the vehicle scanned to see what codes exist to make sure it's not something major and then if it's a minor problem see if the light goes out after so many vehicle re-starts when the ABS module realizes the problem no longer exists in the milder temperatures.
And a yellow light is just a detected fault that needs to be investigated, A flashing yellow light or red ABS light (depending on the vehicle) and/or the Parking brake light coming on in addition to this when the parking brake isn't applied means there is a major fault and driving the vehicle could be quite dangerous depending on this fault.
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My early 2000s Honda used to do this once in a while. If it was REALLY cold (-10F or colder) and the ABS kicked in on ice, the ABS light would come on. Oddly, the ABS would still work and after restarting car the light would turn off again. I read rumors on an internet form the sensors, in general, are brake system, not just ABS. So low fluid can trigger them, too. With that in mind, I figured the fluid was so thick and slow it probably thought at times the fluid was low and kicked on. Who knows. It always did worry me a bit, however.
A transient low voltage or current condition?
The battery will already be at low capacity due to the ambient temperatures and just starting the engine would greatly reduced its residual potential.
The driver will also likely be placing considerable demands upon the electrical system, running rear window defrost, windshield defrost and bun warmers.
The ABS light would likely go out on the next start cycle.
Would have been interesting and easy to test ABS operation on a suitable slick surface.
I'd bet it would operate as intended.
The battery will already be at low capacity due to the ambient temperatures and just starting the engine would greatly reduced its residual potential.
The driver will also likely be placing considerable demands upon the electrical system, running rear window defrost, windshield defrost and bun warmers.
The ABS light would likely go out on the next start cycle.
Would have been interesting and easy to test ABS operation on a suitable slick surface.
I'd bet it would operate as intended.
I wonder if the motors in the ABS module were acting up in the cold. As in, it might have cycled due to some slippage on ice, and then the system didn't respond as it thought it should (maybe the motor didn't cycle and properly cut pressure to a wheel), and thus it tripped a flag.
Not sure if old brake fluid could be a culprit. Since the fluid doesn't circulate I'd think the fluid inside the module would rather moisture-free.
Shouldn't be the sensor but who knows, there's been lots of different sensors used. They should be adapting to any change in distance, but who knows, maybe a particular setup or individual vehicle has one sensor at the edge.
Not sure if old brake fluid could be a culprit. Since the fluid doesn't circulate I'd think the fluid inside the module would rather moisture-free.
Shouldn't be the sensor but who knows, there's been lots of different sensors used. They should be adapting to any change in distance, but who knows, maybe a particular setup or individual vehicle has one sensor at the edge.
Electrical connections in vehicles do all sorts of strange things in very cold temps, sure they are designed for -40 but as they age that number seems to of no significance.
I did one car that would run fine then all of a sudden shut down and all the dash lights were on when it got below 0F, it was a poor ignition module connector.
A Ford horn would trigger every time it hit -10 like clockwork, it was a connection issue in the column.
I suspect the connector to a sensor isn't making as good a connection as it should when the temp got that low. Unless the engine is shutting down and its a one off occurrence at temps that low I usually ignore it until it happens again.
As a side note on cars with an external ABS sensor I see a lot of replacements that were not needed especially in the rust belt. Small pieces of rust from the shied gets on the sensor (it is magnetic) and causes it to malfunction, many times cleaning it is all that is needed.
I did one car that would run fine then all of a sudden shut down and all the dash lights were on when it got below 0F, it was a poor ignition module connector.
A Ford horn would trigger every time it hit -10 like clockwork, it was a connection issue in the column.
I suspect the connector to a sensor isn't making as good a connection as it should when the temp got that low. Unless the engine is shutting down and its a one off occurrence at temps that low I usually ignore it until it happens again.
As a side note on cars with an external ABS sensor I see a lot of replacements that were not needed especially in the rust belt. Small pieces of rust from the shied gets on the sensor (it is magnetic) and causes it to malfunction, many times cleaning it is all that is needed.
Originally Posted by mattd
If he is using nitrogen then the temperature should have no effect on inflation.
Wrong. Nitrogen IS affected by temperature. Chemistry 101. also, a quote from the Tire Rack:
"Nitrogen is a gas and is still affected by changes in ambient temperature (about one psi for every 10° Fahrenheit). Nitrogen filled tires will require pressure be added during the fall/winter months as ambient temperatures and tire pressures drop. Nitrogen is good but can't change the laws of physics."
Also, "air" contains approx 78% nitrogen - unless you are racing, putting pure nitrogen in your tires has little benefit, IMHO.
If he is using nitrogen then the temperature should have no effect on inflation.
Wrong. Nitrogen IS affected by temperature. Chemistry 101. also, a quote from the Tire Rack:
"Nitrogen is a gas and is still affected by changes in ambient temperature (about one psi for every 10° Fahrenheit). Nitrogen filled tires will require pressure be added during the fall/winter months as ambient temperatures and tire pressures drop. Nitrogen is good but can't change the laws of physics."
Also, "air" contains approx 78% nitrogen - unless you are racing, putting pure nitrogen in your tires has little benefit, IMHO.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted by Astro14
Completely agree that the TPMS, if equipped, should show the low pressure. But Wayne didn't specify car age or model. I've only got one vehicle with TPMS, so I guess that I'm predisposed to thinking without considering TPMS...
Still, a temperature drop of 40-50 degrees when that cold hits, is going to result in a big change in tire inflation...and I can't help but link that change with the phenomenon Wayne is seeing...
Agree on all accounts.
Ive been lucky enough to not have many... does a slow leak and under inflated/nearly flat tire cause an abs light in normal conditions?
Completely agree that the TPMS, if equipped, should show the low pressure. But Wayne didn't specify car age or model. I've only got one vehicle with TPMS, so I guess that I'm predisposed to thinking without considering TPMS...
Still, a temperature drop of 40-50 degrees when that cold hits, is going to result in a big change in tire inflation...and I can't help but link that change with the phenomenon Wayne is seeing...
Agree on all accounts.
Ive been lucky enough to not have many... does a slow leak and under inflated/nearly flat tire cause an abs light in normal conditions?
I would add that I could cause an ABS light in my 2000 buick century by doing e-brake turns and locking the rear wheels up in the snow. It didn't like the indicated 0 mph. If your drum brake is slow to return and "catches" due to cold-induced lethargy, the ABS controller might not like that lack of speed reading for a split second.
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