The whole Ethanol thing was just not well thought out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/16/busine...tml?hp&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/16/busine...tml?hp&_r=0
A stupid idea got stupider
- Thread starter Donald
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If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
^^This. Government interference just costs us all more in the long run.
John
If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
^^This. Government interference just costs us all more in the long run.
John
Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
^^This. Government interference just costs us all more in the long run.
John
+1
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
^^This. Government interference just costs us all more in the long run.
John
+1
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
^^This. Government interference just costs us all more in the long run.
John
+1
-1
Have y'all forgotten about the millions in subsidies that the oil companies get? There is a reason that gas in the U.S. is so cheap when compared to the rest of the world.
Originally Posted By: John_K
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
If the government stayed out of the oil business and let refineries do there thing I bet gas would be much cheaper. I just hope the surplus of ethanol doesn't cause them to add more so they can get rid of it.
^^This. Government interference just costs us all more in the long run.
John
+1
-1
Have y'all forgotten about the millions in subsidies that the oil companies get? There is a reason that gas in the U.S. is so cheap when compared to the rest of the world.
The government needs to stay the heck out of automobile regulations.The safety movement of the 1960s was long overdue though,and a good thing for everybody involved,but all this constant meddling every year (12 airbags,tire pressure monitors,back up cameras,black box data loggers...you name it) has cost buyers billions of dollars,and I'm sure billions more when it comes time to fix all these systems.The CAFE mandates of 1978 were meant to do some good by saving fuel and cutting pollution,yet comes along 1985 and GM and Ford cry to Congress that they cannot meet the 28 mpg standard that was then coming up,so it got rolled back,until recently.More than 2 decades later.Stupid.Do you think even one Congressman/person or Senator works on their own cars? Do you think even one knows how a car works or the history of cars? I cant picture Jeanne Shaneen being a student of industry or a "muscle car fan",or "classic car restorer"....they need to keep out of these stupid mandates that at first seem good intentioned,but eventually are shown to be flat out stupid.(MTBE anyone?).
Ethanol in gas is an awful idea (I work for Honda Motorcycles and I see the damage repeatedly EVERY year )
However, the gov't needs to have some sort of presence. Traveling through India the lack of gov't regulations is quite scary:
2013 cars are built to the standards of our ancient cars -no catalytic converters, no safety features. Further more, there are no traffic laws... (Ive seen people, dogs,cows get hit on a regular basis.)
Government involvement is not black or white, its a grey.
However, the gov't needs to have some sort of presence. Traveling through India the lack of gov't regulations is quite scary:
2013 cars are built to the standards of our ancient cars -no catalytic converters, no safety features. Further more, there are no traffic laws... (Ive seen people, dogs,cows get hit on a regular basis.)
Government involvement is not black or white, its a grey.
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it all started in 1968 when the government told the car makers how to build a car. i was auto mech class the year before. our auto teacher told us about how the government was making the car makers set the idle circuit leaner than before.
Did I read that correctly that there is actually more Ethanol Blend in Premium than in Regular gas? Premium is blended to the max, it sounds like?
The reason is because oil IS cheap. The cost to pull a barrel out of the ground is not a lot of money, and refining and distribution costs are quite cheap per gallon. After the Iraq war there was an article that said the cost to pump a barrel of oil in Iraq (soon after the war ended) was $3. The worldwide average is about $30.
The thing is, there is no such thing as a real cost to pump oil. It is a commodity and has a price that is arrived at by the market - not the cost to produce. Add on the massive taxes levied at every stage of production and consumption and you end up with what we pay today. But the US has a lot of oil and compared to the rest of the world our taxes are lower. This is the reason gas in the US is less but not nearly as low as it should be.
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Have y'all forgotten about the millions in subsidies that the oil companies get? There is a reason that gas in the U.S. is so cheap when compared to the rest of the world.
The thing is, there is no such thing as a real cost to pump oil. It is a commodity and has a price that is arrived at by the market - not the cost to produce. Add on the massive taxes levied at every stage of production and consumption and you end up with what we pay today. But the US has a lot of oil and compared to the rest of the world our taxes are lower. This is the reason gas in the US is less but not nearly as low as it should be.
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Have y'all forgotten about the millions in subsidies that the oil companies get? There is a reason that gas in the U.S. is so cheap when compared to the rest of the world.
I also read somewhere that Europe is exporting gas as they have leftover gas from refining crude to mainly get diesel. Since they are much more into diesel cars than the US.
I guess the excuses for high gas prices (refineries down for maint., and high crude prices) were last years excuses. Or maybe they are used only on even years and other excuses for odd years.
I guess the excuses for high gas prices (refineries down for maint., and high crude prices) were last years excuses. Or maybe they are used only on even years and other excuses for odd years.
When all vehicles on public roads are autonomous, they will safely draft each other at speeds and distances that today would cause a fight to break out among some drivers.
Stopping at intersections will be a rare thing. Vehicles will be timed to flow through intersections with clearances that today would cause some to want to walk instead of being in a vehicle.
Vehicles that never crash will not require crash absorbing bumpers, crush zones, air bags, and other crash designs.
Insurance will be unbelievably low cost if it exists at all. The reductions in weight, drafting, and lack of having to stop at intersections will cause a huge increase in MPG or the equal in electric consumption or what ever means of supplying power is used.
Automotive body shops will practically disappear. Insurance may become a thing of the past. Police chases, traffic tickets, and deaths and injuries from motor vehicle accidents will be a thing of the past.
Drivers license may become a thing of the past, as any human who can speak and is authorized to use the vehicle will be able to tell the vehicle where to go to.
Taxi drivers will become a thing of the past.
You will never have to take a vehicle to any place to have any service done on it, as the vehicles will drive themselves to and from maintenance locations.
The improvement in safety resulting in not having tens of thousands of lives lost each year due to motor vehicle accidents will be the main driving force that demands the use of autonomous vehicles when the technology is ready to make it happen.
Stopping at intersections will be a rare thing. Vehicles will be timed to flow through intersections with clearances that today would cause some to want to walk instead of being in a vehicle.
Vehicles that never crash will not require crash absorbing bumpers, crush zones, air bags, and other crash designs.
Insurance will be unbelievably low cost if it exists at all. The reductions in weight, drafting, and lack of having to stop at intersections will cause a huge increase in MPG or the equal in electric consumption or what ever means of supplying power is used.
Automotive body shops will practically disappear. Insurance may become a thing of the past. Police chases, traffic tickets, and deaths and injuries from motor vehicle accidents will be a thing of the past.
Drivers license may become a thing of the past, as any human who can speak and is authorized to use the vehicle will be able to tell the vehicle where to go to.
Taxi drivers will become a thing of the past.
You will never have to take a vehicle to any place to have any service done on it, as the vehicles will drive themselves to and from maintenance locations.
The improvement in safety resulting in not having tens of thousands of lives lost each year due to motor vehicle accidents will be the main driving force that demands the use of autonomous vehicles when the technology is ready to make it happen.
Cars of the future will be much more aerodynamic. Because the safety from computers doing the driving will result in no vehicle crashes, streamlining from the front to the back will be able to be applied with no thought of absorbing impacts from crashes.
Recently there was a TV show about a streamlined bicycle using only human power and extreme streamlining achieving a speed of 75 MPH.
Imagine a car built with that kind of aerodynamics, with no regards to crash absorption because with computer control cars no longer crash, EVER, (yearly vehicle crashes = 0). The main requirements for power will be the amount of power required to lift the weight of the vehicle including occupants and baggage up hills at speed.
Recently there was a TV show about a streamlined bicycle using only human power and extreme streamlining achieving a speed of 75 MPH.
Imagine a car built with that kind of aerodynamics, with no regards to crash absorption because with computer control cars no longer crash, EVER, (yearly vehicle crashes = 0). The main requirements for power will be the amount of power required to lift the weight of the vehicle including occupants and baggage up hills at speed.
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Originally Posted By: needsducktape
...However, the gov't needs to have some sort of presence. Traveling through India the lack of gov't regulations is quite scary...Government involvement is not black or white, its a grey.
I'm glad there is at least one other person with outside experience. Living in the US can make you complacent to all that has been achieved by govt regulations. Where I live now (since 2004) the only smog law is that your car "must not smoke visibly for more than 10 seconds." And, along with hundreds of similar examples, I pay over $100 for every tank of gas.
...However, the gov't needs to have some sort of presence. Traveling through India the lack of gov't regulations is quite scary...Government involvement is not black or white, its a grey.
I'm glad there is at least one other person with outside experience. Living in the US can make you complacent to all that has been achieved by govt regulations. Where I live now (since 2004) the only smog law is that your car "must not smoke visibly for more than 10 seconds." And, along with hundreds of similar examples, I pay over $100 for every tank of gas.
Especially when we are swimming in oil.
Originally Posted By: RDC
Turning food into fuel for transportation is stupid.
/thread
Originally Posted By: RDC
Turning food into fuel for transportation is stupid.
/thread
Threads like this make me sad to log on to this site. Ideology > facts.
Really? It is a good idea to use food (corn) to make ethanol to add to gasoline to make it a fuel that in the end, causes more pollution and is an inferior product? Is that even in dispute anymore? Is it not purely politics that continues the use of ethanol?
And the US isn't swimming in oil?
Which one is not a fact?
Originally Posted By: antonmnster
Threads like this make me sad to log on to this site. Ideology > facts.
And the US isn't swimming in oil?
Which one is not a fact?
Originally Posted By: antonmnster
Threads like this make me sad to log on to this site. Ideology > facts.
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
When all vehicles on public roads are autonomous, they will safely draft each other at speeds and distances that today would cause a fight to break out among some drivers.
Snip...
So Dr. Cocteau, how do you plan on getting everyone in this country to trust their transportation needs 100% to computers? It all sounds well and good, but to think that anyone in the US of A with an IQ under 150 would ever go along with this plan is laughable.
When all vehicles on public roads are autonomous, they will safely draft each other at speeds and distances that today would cause a fight to break out among some drivers.
Snip...
So Dr. Cocteau, how do you plan on getting everyone in this country to trust their transportation needs 100% to computers? It all sounds well and good, but to think that anyone in the US of A with an IQ under 150 would ever go along with this plan is laughable.
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