A Question For Astro

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Astro,

The critiquing of the Hultgreen accident got me thinking. I know a carrier pilot is heavily graded on every carrier landing he makes. And I read several times that hitting the "3 wire" is considered desirable. But what if a pilot makes textbook approaches as to airspeed, attitude, sink rate, application of power in response from the LSO, etc. But routinely hits the 1 wire, or the 4 wire. Will his performance be downgraded based on that alone?

And if the aircraft hits the 1 wire, is it hard on the airframe, landing gear, and tires rolling over the other 3 wires after he touches down? Or are they far enough apart, and stretch out long enough so that doesn't happen? Thanks in advance.
 
Just from what I have read . Trapping on the cable closest to the stern , is problematic , because a ramp stinker is one of the worst things that can take place . The stern of the ship has a lot less give to it , than the airplane .

Trapping on the last cable would mean that you almost did not snag a cable . Not good .

I have heard that a carrier landing is a controlled ( hopefully ) crash . Stressful on the landing gear , air frame and probably pretty much every thing else on the airplane . Part of the game .

I have read that a carrier plane has stronger , heavier construction than an Air Force variation of the same plane . For those reasons .

I think a carrier plane has more corrosion issues than a typical Air Force plane ? Which is a question you did not ask .

I am guessing , running over the arresting cable is a much lesser issue ?
 
Bill - if you don’t land on the 3-wire, you were 15” (that’s right, inches) off Glideslope.

Likely not a “textbook landing” if you were that far off.

Today’s my youngest daughter’s first day of college. I’m focused on that.

More tonight. Involves what I remember from glideslope geometry as well as LSO grading.

Cheers,
Astro
 
Astro Blessings to your little girl. Both of mine are there. It is amazing how we can be proud and hurting at the same time.
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop

Look Ma No Hook... 2:00

Do the "fighter" jets have reversers?
 
Nope. Funny story on that. Air Force F-4 Phantom II squadron mates landed at the civilian airport in Naha Okinawa with emergency fuel levels when a storm event prevented them from landing at Kadena Air Base. Standing water was so high he put his hook down and took the approach end cable. Ground personel kept signaling him to back up, but without tension on the cable, or thrust reversers there was no way he could do that. The Japanese ground personel kept signaling, he kept shaking his head. After a short time the engines flamed out from fuel starvation. Very upset Japanese tower people due to the closed runway, tough banannas. Airplane and crew safe.
 
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Ok, with the exception of a couple of "Euro fighters", the answer is no. Most fighters have arresting gear (hooks) and many use drag chutes to reduce landing rollout.
I believe the few fighters with it were planned to be used on unimproved fields (roads and highways) so they could still land and launch in the event of a massive assult on airfields by the Soviet Union.
 
The Tornado has thrust reversers, because it was designed for short-field operations.

In fact, like a Swiss Army knife, it was loaded with requirements, and everybody wanted it to do everything....so, like a Swiss Army knife, it can do lots of things, but few of them well...

And because of all those requirements, it's complex, heavy (things like thrust reversers and pivoting hard points on the wings add weight and complexity), and a lousy performer. Good ground attack airplane. Poor fighter. Inadequate visibility, thrust/weight, turn performance. The Skyflash missile was OK...but not as good as AMRAAM. The air-air (ADV) radar was pretty good, but defeat the Skyflash (not hard) and it was like clubbing baby seals when you got to a visual engagement with a Tornado...

Because it delivered a unique, runway cratering weapon, it was flown at low altitude during Desert Storm, and was a sitting duck for Irai defenders. The preponderance of the Allied POWs were Tornado crews. 3% of air assets, but over 20% of Allied losses...

Not exactly an enviable combat record...

I'm surprised that it's still in service. It was behind the times the day that it was rolled out. Some of the upgrads (sensor and weapons) have improved its combat capability, but none of that has improved its sluggish performance in the air.
 
Back on topic.

First, you can be a pretty good ballplayer, but have no business being in the NBA...and so it is with pilots. Kara Hultgreen, Planet, and others might have been pretty good pilots, but they had no business flying on carriers. It is, simply, the most demanding environment in aviation, bar none, and not every pilot is up to that challenge.

The difference of course, is that if you're weak on the court, you get boos and your team loses while still getting paid ludicrous amounts of money, while if you're weak at the boat, you die.

Still scratching my head trying to figure out why those NBA guys get millions, but that's another topic...


Landing Signal Officers, LSOs, are charged with "The safe and expeditious recovery of aircraft aboard ship". To that end, they are trained, and in addition to keeping landings safe, they grade every single landing, with detailed comments (too numerous to go into here, but there is an LSO shorthand, which describe approach attitude, power, glideslope, and lineup) so that trend analysis and pilot coaching/training can be conducted. Every landing aboard ship is closely watched, and every landing is carefully, fairly debriefed to the pilots. Each pass gets an overall grade, with comments as above, and the wire caught.

So, LSO grading works like this:

OK - 5.0 the perfect pass.*
OK - 4.0 small deviations with timely corrections. Known as an "OK"
(OK) - 3.0 deviations with good corrections. Known as a "Fair"
-- - 2.0 large deviations, below average. Known as a "No Grade"
B - 2.5 - a Bolter, not necessarily bad, but missed the wires.
WO - 1.0 excessive deviations, wave off.
CUT - 0.0 Unsafe, dangerous, gross deviations inside the waveoff window. Known as a "CUT Pass".


The degree to which an airplane deviates is something a trained, experienced LSO can see very well. Glideslope, centerline, AOA, we can see it all from the LSO platform, which was on the port side of the ship, aft of the wires.

For, example, there was a calculated approach speed based on gross weight for the F-14. It corresponded to the "on-speed" angle of attack. So, an F-14 with an inoperative AOA (and we flew only AOA, not airspeed when on final) was an emergency, and the RIO would often call the airspeed out to the pilot. One night, an F-14 called "no AOA" and I called his approach AOA. On landing and debrief, the RIO commented that I was saying "a little fast" when the airplane was 2 knots above airspeed and saying "on-speed" when it was EXACTLY on-speed. He was shocked that I could see it that well, and I was mildly insulted that this was a surprise to the crew...

Arguing with LSOs was poor etiquette and, in 99% of the cases, simply proved that you didn't see everything. In fact, there was once an article in Approach Magazine (Naval Aviation safety magazine) entitled "The night paddles robbed my wife" in which an A-7 driver kept getting waved off even though he saw a centered ball. On landing, it was determined that the lens itself had failed in roll angle and was showing an incorrect glideslope. In the cockpit, the author was thinking "these guys are idiots, I'm right ON". When he landed and saw the PLAT footage, he realized how low he was, and how "Paddles" had "robbed" his wife of his insurance policy - he was headed for a ramp strike three times in a row...

The LSOs discounted the wave offs and did an LSO talk-down, getting him safely into the 3 wire on his 4th pass.

It is purely LSO judgement on what corrections are "small" or normal, or excessive. But they're obvious to the trained eye. LSOs are true apprentices. You start by watching. You're allowed to grade under the tutelage of a senior LSO (who is both training you and keeping the pilots safe). Extenuating circumstances are considered in the overall grade. Wind, weather, ship's equipment, aircraft equipment, combat fatigue. I considered all of it in determining a grade.

I'll discuss the details of glideslope geometry in another post. It's far more complex than the simple geometry of a runway...

But here's the overview: the target touchdown point on a NIMITZ-class CVN** is 235' from the ramp. This is precisely half way between the the 2 and 3 wires. The wires are spaced 40 feet apart. So, the 1 wire is 175 from the ramp, while the 4 wire is 295 from the ramp. With a 3.5 degree basic angle on the glideslope, a +/- deviation of 15" (roughly) yielded +/- 20 feet on the deck, so, if you were within 15", you touched down within 20 feet of target and then hit the 3.

IF you were 4 feet low, you were on the 1. 4 Feet high, and you would miss the 4, resulting in a bolter. (missed wires, full power, you've got 300' to get airborne again). 4 feet was a lot when you were touching down on a carrier. An airplane perfectly on glideslope, on a steady, level deck, had 14.1 feet of clearance over the ramp.

A 1 wire then, was generally a "no-grade". Below average, but not unsafe (or it would've been a waveoff). A 4 wire was generally a "fair" (high, but not 4 feet high). A 2 wire was generally a "fair", because, like a 4, you were more than 15" off. Any of the sires are "safe" in that they are capable of stopping the airplane equally well. What matters for the airplane is sink rate and attitude. If the sink rate and attitude are good, then all the wires are good.

That said, if you just caught the 2 on the fly, and were only 15" low on an otherwise smooth, nice approach, I would give you an OK for that pass.

Some passes that end up on the 3 are lousy - the result of poor corrections. Nose the airplane down at the last second? That's a "no grade" and in some cases (F/A-18) would damage the airframe, or at least set a code that required detailed inspection by maintenance. How you got there is as important as the wire.

Extenuating circumstances would, of course, influence those grades.

MOVLAS*** was nearly always an OK - if you respond to the LSO-displayed glideslope, your corrections were timely, and you get a good grade.

Trend analysis, debrief, and pilot performance were taken very seriously. During Desert Storm, a pilot in my squadron, a senior, experienced pilot, flew a couple of CUT passes (see above) and the CAG LSO (senior LSO afloat) went to the Air Wing Commander (CAG, for whom he worked). After formal proceedings, that pilot was sent home, during combat operations. It was very hard on the squadron to lose a pilot during high-tempo operations.

But it was the right call. It took courage to make the hard call. On the basis of LSO grades, his career was over. No crash. No death.

That pilot is still alive to this day. Saw him at the Dry Cleaners on Shore Drive the other day. He didn't see me...perhaps for the best...he's not an LSO fan...not a fan of me, either, I think...

Planet, and Kara, were failed by leadership. No pilot will ever tell you that they don't belong there. Flying fighters was a dream to them, an aspiration. They were willing to keep at it as long as they were allowed. While I've detailed her failures in landing that day, it was a failure in leadership that allowed her to be in the environment that was too much for her.

Same with Planet.


So, when a Naval aviator says, "OK-3" - now you have a bit of insight into the vernacular...if I were to tell you "that was an OK"...it's high praise, coming from me...

Cheers,
Astro


* In over 20,000 carrier landings that I personally supervised, I gave out just one OK. I'll never forget it, a no-flap, night approach in an F-14 flown by a guy named Doug Burgoyne. Rock-solid, never left glideslope, it was the smoothest, sweetest pass I've ever seen, and he had an emergency, and it was at night.

** I'll keep my discussion centered on the NIMITZ-class. Other ship classes are similar, but there are subtle differences in data points and I can't remember all of them. Two deployments on a NIMITZ-class, one as CAG LSO (the senior LSO afloat) has given me pretty good recollection of those details.

***MOVLAS - Manually Operated Visual Landing Aid System was discussed in another thread. If the deck was pitching, or rolling, the standard lens/glideslope indicator was unable to keep up, and would give bad information. A manual system was rigged and the LSO took manual control to stabilize the airplane in space as it approached a shipt that was moving in multiple dimensions.
 
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