Bky sky country like Nevada are the exception rather than the norm. Your friends will never need to rely on batteries for an appreciable amount of time. Tesla powerwalls, unless you buy a bunch of them, just don't have the juice to operate a home for 2-3 days. Off grid living, at the moment, demands a large bank of heavy lead-acid batteries and were you're reduced to generator living (It powers only a few things in the house.) . The climate east of the rockies is just not very accomodating for off-grid lifestyle but people do it and are comfortable with the trade-offsA couple of friends live in Sparks, Nevada, close to the Tesla battery plant. I only mention that because it's an interesting coincidence. They recently purchased a Tesla Y (or maybe the X) model.
Their home is solar powered, and they installed a couple of Tesla's Powerwalls.
Powerwall | Tesla
Powerwall is a home battery designed to store energy from solar or the grid, so you can use it anytime you want—at night or during an outage.www.tesla.com
Rain or shine, day or night, power outage or not, they're pretty well covered. They also have an ICE vehicle.
If you've got the $$$, juice isn't much concern. Just to put things in perspective, I drive a 10 year old Camry.
A Hypothetical For Discussion
- Thread starter DwightFrye
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Or, you could get some extra gasoline just in case. I know all these power outages. I wake up every morning rushing to gas station before power is off.
For sure. As long as you cycle them and store in metal containers you can go for a while.
I did that for years and when I didnt have a well pump and or a sump/ blackwater pump it was much easier to run a house of a portable genset.
Living off genset in the city is easier because you can still shower and flush.
We started having multiple days long outages in summer and winter and these present me with an entirely new set of problems.
Having no water for days is simply a non starter.
Having no water and 100 degree temps combined for days blows chunks, you cant run well pumps and central air off any single portable.
The only solution for that was to go big.
A natural gas hookup and big 20KW unit let me basically live life as normal and dedicate my stored fuel to vehicle vs splitting between them and gensets and dealing with refueling and smelling like gas for a week straight.
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As far as I know, some states (FL) requires gas stations to have independent power source.
There was a bill requiring that in NJ but I'm sure it became law. Following Super Storm Sandy people couldn't buy gas due to power outages.
As far the original question goes, I'd be wary that the newcomers to EV have rushed their engineering and am in no rush to buy a Ford or FCA EV. GM has had their Volt and Bolt out for a while. My neighbors just bought a Tesla X. They run the cord from their garage out to the driveway.
Sort of....
When it comes to Florida only few gas stations are required to have them. Mainly the big truck stop like places with X pumps in x feet from a major freeway.
Almost all are required to have a transfer switch but no actual backup genset is required, and unsurprisingly very few have them.
I think after Sandy, many states required backup generators for gas stations of a certain size. I see several large gas stations with backup generators these days.
Typically its truck stop sized places, idea being interstate commerce keeps flowing.
Around here only one place has one (15 Miles away) and he runs out of gas in 3 days, and lines form a loong way out...
If they are priced like a Tesla it’s too rich for many including me. Of course Ford and Chrysler still get the tax credit, but that means you have to owe more than 7500 in tax and you haven’t put too much withholding in yet. Honestly it’s easier to buy a 20 k gas or hybrid car and forget all of it. As for how many people this and that it’s too early to tell. I don’t think most people want to bother charging a car, they want to just go. Many live in old houses with old wiring, or rent where charging is difficult. They don’t want to search for chargers and compete for them to wait several hours to charge. People in general, again, just want to get in and go and if they need gas they can buy it all over. They don’t want to have more steps.
If you can plug in the labor is reversed - the BEV is already to go every morning, and the ICE becomes more steps and requires district trips to fill.
Very true, if you don’t go into the electricity rate tiers like I would have to do with home charging. It makes it more expensive than an economical hybrid. The solar option is the best deal but not everyone can muster that. Otherwise, yes laughing at gas stations is also attractive to many.
Tesla, and others I'm sure, are working on $25K EVs.
Regarding charging, it was different than I imagined.
There are chargers everywhere around here. I realize Silicon Valley is a tech bubble, but many companies allow you to charge at work for free or at lease subsidized. Hospitals, shopping centers, you name it.
If you charge at home, you realize just how nice it is to start each day with a full tank. Nuthin' like it.
Mist people drive about 30 miles per day, up that to 100 miles per day and you include a whole lotta people. The cheapest Tesla is rated at 260 miles range.
These cars are not for everyone, but things are changing.
But I can tell you these cars are super fun.
I am used to keeping an eye out for cheap gas stations while driving, to save a few bucks.
I do this in the Tesla as well. Then I laugh at myself... Couldn't put petrol in this thing if I wanted to.
I rarely fuel at "new" places, most of the trips I take fuel stops are pre planned and optimized already to cover bio, food, fuel and or snacks.
On My Nor/ So cal trips I consistently stop at the same place and there are usually superchargers at them, so my 1K trips work pretty much the same with the long range tesli as they do with ice.
The big three do a better job at fit, finish, and timely repairs. This may be a factor for some buyers.
As a technical guy, I'm more likely to concentrate on the technology, the quality and type of battery pack, it's expected lifespan and whether the vehicle suits my needs.
The Mustang Mach E uses pouch type batteries as far as I can tell (as do some others) That's comparatively old technology, they have reliability and lifespan issues too. Tesla's 2170 cells are very robust. As the battery is the heart of an EV, I'd be more likely to choose what I believe to be higher quality batteries.
It may be that the Chinese plan to use LiFePO4 batteries (less capacity, more weight, much more tolerant of abuse) may be the way some manufacturers go. This will result in 2000+ full cycles while still meeting rated capacity, or something like a 600,000 mile lifespan.
As a technical guy, I'm more likely to concentrate on the technology, the quality and type of battery pack, it's expected lifespan and whether the vehicle suits my needs.
The Mustang Mach E uses pouch type batteries as far as I can tell (as do some others) That's comparatively old technology, they have reliability and lifespan issues too. Tesla's 2170 cells are very robust. As the battery is the heart of an EV, I'd be more likely to choose what I believe to be higher quality batteries.
It may be that the Chinese plan to use LiFePO4 batteries (less capacity, more weight, much more tolerant of abuse) may be the way some manufacturers go. This will result in 2000+ full cycles while still meeting rated capacity, or something like a 600,000 mile lifespan.
Yeah the pouches allow shaping of the pack but have clear downsides.
I'm holding off until I see the 4160 based vehicles.
to Jeffs point - the killer unique feature is at home charging, if you cant charge at home I wouldnt bother.
I think the Tesla 4680's have some stunning performance advantages. The internal configuration leads to better charge and discharge C ratings. There are some silly claims like 6x better, but that's just not so. 6x more discharge current per cell, than an 18650, yes, possibly. But remember that one 4680 replaces many 18650's and at least 2, 2170's.
The bottom line is that 2170's were chosen due to the near ideal geometry and that the 2170's will provide nearly all the range per KG that any Li cell can provide. We can only move so many ions, as there are only so many available to move. Moving them faster is the secret behind the new tabless cells. Think better 0-60 acceleration times and charge times, and not increased range by better energy density.
Refinement is the name of the game now.
The fact that you would be able to see, touch, and bring home the actual car you are buying will be enough to bring in EV customers for the big 3. Too bad Ford and VW still want to focus on online sales and only using dealerships as a pick up location instead of holding stock.
If I could just go to a dealership and buy a Tesla I would already have one. Buying one online is too much bs IMO, and I'm sure other people think the same. Multiple phone calls, no one really knows what they're doing, different time zone etc. Only reason I say that is because I tried to buy one.
Tesla has set the standard for EVs so until the market catches up in every aspect from price to performance, brand loyalty will only count for a very minor amount of sales. Teslas aren't necessarily good in terms of quality but the technology and design is enough to overlook any downsides. Same cannot be said with other EVs on the market right now.
If I could just go to a dealership and buy a Tesla I would already have one. Buying one online is too much bs IMO, and I'm sure other people think the same. Multiple phone calls, no one really knows what they're doing, different time zone etc. Only reason I say that is because I tried to buy one.
Tesla has set the standard for EVs so until the market catches up in every aspect from price to performance, brand loyalty will only count for a very minor amount of sales. Teslas aren't necessarily good in terms of quality but the technology and design is enough to overlook any downsides. Same cannot be said with other EVs on the market right now.
Yes, Tesla does not have traditional dealerships. They have "service centers" or are at shopping malls.
You can go see and test drive them.
They generalls have a few flavors of each Model.
When we bought the Model 3 in December 2018, there were Srandard Range, Long Range and Performance versions of the Model 3.
We test drove and then ordered a Standard Range (rwd) there. I think they offered to let us take it home for the night.
These cars are later sold just like any demonstrator; there are saving to be made on such a deal!
I would not pay that kinda $$ sight unseen; I ain't that whack!
Another thing, which really isn't tesla's fault, is their closest store is 5 hours from me. That specific store also had a 3 Performance in stock. Not the ideal color I wanted but they had it. So I put a deposit down on that one in stock. 2 weeks of back n forth, turns out they never reserved the car for me. They reserved the spot, not the car. Then what was the point of me settling for a color I didn't really want? Not that big of a deal but would have been nice to know from the get go. I would have went in knowing I had to wait a few weeks and spec it the way I wanted.
But the whole deal fell apart when they dropped my trade in by 3k with no reason. Mileage, condition, no accidents, everything was submitted correctly. They couldn't tell me why and then the rep started getting mad at me because I told him about my original offer. Smh you get a smoother experience buying a 16k Kia.