A good synopsis of modern engine failures

[burbguy82]

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/decre...drop-in-deaths-attributable-to-air-pollution/

I had to dig deep down in the Dark Web to find this.

I am not talking about deaths....although I am not sure how they came to that conclusion. "Attributable" can mean a lot, or nothing, depending on the author. But thanks for the reference.

I was talking about cost, as in cost to manufacture, repair, produce parts, produce new car every 5 years, due to crappy vehicle quality and design etc.....as opposed to having a reliable car that gets maybe 1% less fuel mileage, but lasts 30 years.

Point being, a system or systems that adds cost, and an increase in .01% mpg, but make maintenance 50% more and decreases reliability by 20 years...........is not worth the effort, imo.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I am not talking about deaths....although I am not sure how they came to that conclusion. "Attributable" can mean a lot, or nothing, depending on the author. But thanks for the reference.

I was talking about cost, as in cost to manufacture, repair, produce parts, produce new car every 5 years, due to crappy vehicle quality and design etc.....as opposed to having a reliable car that gets maybe 1% less fuel mileage, but lasts 30 years.

Point being, a system or systems that adds cost, and an increase in .01% mpg, but make maintenance 50% more and decreases reliability by 20 years...........is not worth the effort, imo.

Well ya there's cost but there's also a cost in terms of lost productivity from people who are out of work because to they or a family member have chronic air related health problems which are exacerbated by high PM2.5, ground level ozone, etc .

 

[nobb]

The electric parking brakes are no joke and I don't like them (to engage automatically) . If they fail to release you are NOT moving that vehicle but to skid the tires. Also makes it a pain for a guy to just shove a vehicle around without electrical power, like repositioning between lift towers during a repair when the battery was disconnected

I have a '24 Outlander, my first ever vehicle with the e-brake. You can't even put it in neutral to push the car because as soon as you open the door it engages the e-brake again.

 

[D60]

I have a '24 Outlander, my first ever vehicle with the e-brake. You can't even put it in neutral to push the car because as soon as you open the door it engages the e-brake again.

Yep I had a similar problem on a KL Cherokee. I don't remember EXACTLY the circumstances, but it annoyed me.

 

[MCompact]

My girlfriend in law school owned a 1975 Mustang II Ghia V8; driving it really encouraged me to study and work very hard so that I would never have to drive anything like it ever again.

 

[burbguy82]

Well ya there's cost but there's also a cost in terms of lost productivity from people who are out of work because to they or a family member have chronic air related health problems which are exacerbated by high PM2.5, ground level ozone, etc .

ehhhh....

I am talking about directly connected stimulus.....your connection is a stretch and not the normality.

This topic brings out the communist in me. I agree with your premise of public respondsibility. I have said before that Vehicles should be application based, limited to 300 HP, and speed limits reduced. Those two things would help all party's issues more than adding any system

Go back to 88-2006 tech.

 

[MCompact]

I think that the most annoying Thing about newer vehicles is the difficulty involved in delimiting the top speed. On my Club Sport I needed a Turner/Conforti chip to get an unrestricted top speed of 130 mph- with an additional 10 hp as a bonus. On a lot of newer cars the easiest way to get a decent top speed is to spring for optional summer rubber- which is what I had to do on my C43.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

ehhhh....

I am talking about directly connected stimulus.....your connection is a stretch and not the normality.

This topic brings out the communist in me. I agree with your premise of public respondsibility. I have said before that Vehicles should be application based, limited to 300 HP, and speed limits reduced. Those two things would help all party's issues more than adding any system

Go back to 88-2006 tech.

Of course it's the normality. We don't get to pick and choose which costs we want to use to justify a position. It's almost akin to saying alcoholism only impacts the drinker and that's the only thing we should be concerned about.

 

[burbguy82]

Of course it's the normality. We don't get to pick and choose which costs we want to use to justify a position. It's almost akin to saying alcoholism only impacts the drinker and that's the only thing we should be concerned about.

I am not cherry picking.

One can present several different things all forming a conclusion to their opinion. Of course, data can always be found to the contrary.

I suppose you are talking about a reduction in emissions, by the more widespread use of modern ICE engines and more EV use within the US? One of the costs (being loss of life), has been reduced due to regulation to ICE? If so.....I get it. But loss of life is not really the concern, we are talking dollars. But there ae increases in other facets of the world as we move to a more modern

Taking EV for example. Talking cost.

Do you know that many states building code has been halted due to costs of current and future changes from the ICC, because changes made to the ICC are so cost prohibitive? Especially as it pertains to the Fire Code in relation to EV storage and charging? Massive change to building requirements, massive change to the Fire Code, and NEC., not to mention Building Code and Mechanical Code.....not so much the Plumbing Code. And that is just EVs, not solar, or grey and clear water reclaim systems that are on the horizon, that cost maybe 80K per house. Imagine that cost. Fire suppression requirements for residential construction, not previous to past requirements, and in some cases retroactive enforcement due to the fact that fire suppression is a Life Safety system.

Massive cost increases, some say as much as 50% more, just to build a compliant house to new energy standards, not to mention a commercial property with public occupancy.

Couple that with increased insurance cost, and none of it will matter, because industry will die, and we will have another recession.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I am not cherry picking.

One can present several different things all forming a conclusion to their opinion. Of course, data can always be found to the contrary.

I suppose you are talking about a reduction in emissions, by the more widespread use of modern ICE engines and more EV use within the US? One of the costs (being loss of life), has been reduced due to regulation to ICE? If so.....I get it. But loss of life is not really the concern, we are talking dollars. But there ae increases in other facets of the world as we move to a more modern

Taking EV for example. Talking cost.

Do you know that many states building code has been halted due to costs of current and future changes from the ICC, because changes made to the ICC are so cost prohibitive? Especially as it pertains to the Fire Code in relation to EV storage and charging? Massive change to building requirements, massive change to the Fire Code, and NEC., not to mention Building Code and Mechanical Code.....not so much the Plumbing Code. And that is just EVs, not solar, or grey and clear water reclaim systems that are on the horizon, that cost maybe 80K per house. Imagine that cost. Fire suppression requirements for residential construction, not previous to past requirements, and in some cases retroactive enforcement due to the fact that fire suppression is a Life Safety system.

Massive cost increases, some say as much as 50% more, just to build a compliant house to new energy standards, not to mention a commercial property with public occupancy.

Couple that with increased insurance cost, and none of it will matter, because industry will die, and we will have another recession.

Lose of life is a loss of $$. People who are sick require medical care and if they're not working there's lost productivity. That all has a dollar figure attached to it. Just like alcoholism, drug use, and smoking.

As far as EV compliance with regards to the ICC. I haven't read up on it lately but I can see where the impact to would be proportionally greater for the smallest code minimum house that could be built.

The insurance industry has been the driver of residential building codes forever.

 

[burbguy82]

Lose of life is a loss of $$. People who are sick require medical care and if they're not working there's lost productivity. That all has a dollar figure attached to it. Just like alcoholism, drug use, and smoking.

As far as EV compliance with regards to the ICC. I haven't read up on it lately but I can see where the impact to would be proportionally greater for the smallest code minimum house that could be built.

The insurance industry has been the driver of residential building codes forever.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere.

Proportionately greater is an understatement. Massive costs., not to mention all the energy required to manufacture new equipment and systems not previously required, operations to haul said materials around the country, companies to install the systems, and maintenance, etc.

I agree that there will be an impact by the medical situations you are talking about, but IMO, is in extreme cases.

One thing I just dont understand is: Why do the regulations always seem to be caught by us, the small guy, the worker bee. An example might be vehicles sold to the military. The same pickup truck sold to the military, has no emissions related equipment that cripples the civilian version. "For me and not for thee"?

I remember back on 2006, there was a guy who was getting 38 MPG out of a 6.6 Duramax. Today, not possible from factory, or maybe with great cost to the person who modifies the truck to obtain that efficiency.

That is one thing I take issue with, and the reasons behind it.

Back to the point of thread, it is a fact that these systems are creating issues, and have been for a long time. We will see what the rollback of EPA regs will do for the industry. And maybe get the govt minders out of the engineering process.

Edit: Yes insurance is the driver for building codes, that and fire fighting. Insurance or the ability of a company not to issue coverage is also another form of code compliance.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Ok, now we are getting somewhere.

Proportionately greater is an understatement. Massive costs., not to mention all the energy required to manufacture new equipment and systems not previously required, operations to haul said materials around the country, companies to install the systems, and maintenance, etc.

I agree that there will be an impact by the medical situations you are talking about, but IMO, is in extreme cases.

One thing I just dont understand is: Why do the regulations always seem to be caught by us, the small guy, the worker bee. An example might be vehicles sold to the military. The same pickup truck sold to the military, has no emissions related equipment that cripples the civilian version. "For me and not for thee"?

I remember back on 2006, there was a guy who was getting 38 MPG out of a 6.6 Duramax. Today, not possible from factory, or maybe with great cost to the person who modifies the truck to obtain that efficiency.

That is one thing I take issue with, and the reasons behind it.

Back to the point of thread, it is a fact that these systems are creating issues, and have been for a long time. We will see what the rollback of EPA regs will do for the industry. And maybe get the govt minders out of the engineering process.

Edit: Yes insurance is the driver for building codes, that and fire fighting. Insurance or the ability of a company not to issue coverage is also another form of code compliance.

Think of it like this. You're being allowed to pollute less which is a lot more than what would be allowed under a private property rights society where you would be responsible for the harm caused by your pollution.

 

[burbguy82]

Think of it like this. You're being allowed to pollute less which is a lot more than what would be allowed under a private property rights society where you would be responsible for the harm caused by your pollution.

I see.

So you are saying that "my pollution or one's pollution" in this case is measured at the tail pipe, am I understanding your basic idea? Are you in the opinion that these much more unreliable cars, in question, pollute less?

Further, I eat cows, so are you saying that I am respondsible for the cow methane emission, or the vegans are respondsible for the pesticides on their food, or the mice and snakes killed during combine harvesting? Same idea?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I see.

So you are saying that "my pollution or one's pollution" in this case is measured at the tail pipe, am I understanding your basic idea? Are you in the opinion that these much more unreliable cars, in question, pollute less?

Further, I eat cows, so are you saying that I am respondsible for the cow methane emission, or the vegans are respondsible for the pesticides on their food, or the mice and snakes killed during combine harvesting? Same idea?

I don't know nor do I really care. I imagine lifecycle emissions are markedly reduced compared to a 2006 model. Also the cars are not "much more unreliable". Some manufacturers are having difficulty to build a reliable car at X cost.

The farmers are responsible for the methane their cows emit.

 

[burbguy82]

I don't know nor do I really care. I imagine lifecycle emissions are markedly reduced compared to a 2006 model. Also the cars are not "much more unreliable". Some manufacturers are having difficulty to build a reliable car at X cost.

The farmers are responsible for the methane their cows emit.

The farmer is at fault for their cows, but I am at fault for my tail pipe?

 

[Arc]

Don't exaggerate, it was 88HP, my EX had a 1974 Mustang II. But at least it had the manual transmission to move all that horsepower .

 

[Arc]

But you could get the Mustang II with a 302! My cousin’s late husband had one, incredibly nose heavy, probably a whopping 120 malaise-era HP (believe it was even a Cobra II, with power sucking C4 automatic!). A close friend had the first Fox body ‘83 Mustang GT 302, with the Holley carb, and the 5 speed-I only drove it once, that was enough, I would have probably killed myself in that car… Night and day compared to the Mustang II!

My wife had a mustang II in highschool, she loved because it was her first car and it would go 80mph.

 

[Arc]

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/decre...drop-in-deaths-attributable-to-air-pollution/

I had to dig deep down in the Dark Web to find this.

Air pollution is just something we will all have to deal with regardless of vehicles as our population grows. The thing I've noticed most over the years is the small particles in the air. I can't keep my car clean more than one day now because it will get covered in dust overnight sitting outside. Wasn't like that many years ago unless a volcano erupted somewhere in the world or the jet stream picked up dust in Africa.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The farmer is at fault for their cows, but I am at fault for my tail pipe?

The cows are their property. Are farmers not responsible for the manure their animals leave behind which enters your drinking water supplies or well?

 

[loneryder]

In the 1990’s the DC metro area suffered constant temperature inversion, orange air and air pollution alerts. Some days you had trouble catching your breath and your eyes burned. This was mostly vehicle pollution as there are no industries in this area. Fast forward to today and there hasn’t been any warnings or bad air for years. There is a hundred times more people and vehicles in this area. Point is that a lot of progress has been made with vehicular pollution. So I laugh when people argue about it today.