A/C seized up

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
129
Location
MI
I have a 97 z28 camaro and when i turn the car on, the idle fluctuates and i hear a strange noise. I discovered that the a/c compressor's pulley is turning red hot and causing the belt to smoke. What can i do to fix this problem? What is wrong and how do i fix it?

There isn't anything obstructing if from spinning and everything looks ok from the outside. I have a new belt as well as of 2k miles.

I just jump started someones battery btw if that has anything to do with it.
 
Either the A/C compressor is shot or the A/C compressor clutch is shot.

Usually when the A/C compressor clutch goes, it screws up the input shaft to the A/C compressor itself so either way, you're looking at a new A/C compressor (which comes with the clutch).

Big bucks unless you get a wrecking yard unit with a warranty, which would be my suggestion..
 
Alright i played with it and watched it closely. It runs alright when the a/c is off. When the a/c is turned on, sparks start flying off of it and it turns red hot quick.

How do i know for sure if its shot or just needs to be refilled, also, once i purchase a new compressor, what is involved in the change? Do i need to do anything freon involved (emptying and filling it?). also, is it somehting i could do?
 
When I got my Cavalier with a non-functional AC system I just got a non-AC serpentine belt for it. When the alternator blew I got a lower output non-AC alternator. If you don't want to fix it right away I would just pick up a belt and forget about it.

Good luck, Steve
 
Any way i can rebuild the compressor myself or is there any possibility it is still working?
 
quote:

Originally posted by phenomic:
Any way i can rebuild the compressor myself or is there any possibility it is still working?

Prolly not. 1st when the compressor locks up it usually contaminates the entire A/C system with metal chunks, Teflon piston rings etc.

1. Where are you going to find the parts to rebuild it? The auto parts stores generally don't carry repair parts, only new or rebuilt compressors.

BTW I'm in the automotive A/C industry and I won't use a rebuilt compressor unless thats the only option I have.

2. With the system contaminated you will need to atleast replace the drier/accumulator, orface tube and flush the system with A/C flush solvent.

Most likely you will also need to replace the condensor. It has many small tubes in it and flushing won't get all the stuff out. If the old stuff gets into your new compressor it will ruin it immediatly.

If it's really bad you will need to also replace the rubber lines and the evaporator under the dash!

Honestly this should be handled by a reputable shop that will stand behind their warranty.

As far as price I'd say $900 or so if it just needs a new compressor, drier/accumulator, orface tube, flush, new oil and 134a.

2k or more If it's really bad and the evap needs to be replaced.
 
quote:

As far as price I'd say $900 or so if it just needs a new compressor.

We replaced the locked up A/C compressor on a 1997 Olds Cierra for less than $400 with good used GM parts. Used compressor from salvage yard $125 + install labor and recharge of system. Note - I had a body shop do the work.
 
www.car-part.com.
cheers.gif
 
I have had several customers over the years bring me a used junkyard compressor. None were any good! Then they expect me to R+R the thing for free untill they get a good one!
mad.gif


Now I refuse to use a used or rebuilt compressor.

Ocasionally I can only get a rebuilt and will be forced to use it but not often.

I will stand behind my warranty and even go above and beyond it if the customer has a problem with my parts I'll do what I can to make things right. Even if my warranty is out.

I give a 2 year warranty on my A/C jobs. Putting on a used compressor IMHO is a total waste of time and $$$ unless you just need it to run the belt and not ever charge the system.

A/C repairs are not cheap! You normally can't just replace the worn part w/o doing the whole job.

Doing 1/2 the job is like rebuilding your engine after it blew up only to put the old oil and oil filter back on the new engine.
 
I'm not arguing with you Chris. But for a 1997 anything, $900 is a very BIG chunk of the vehicles value. If this wasn't a Z28 ..and maybe even if it was....it would not get fixed in my house for that price.

You're also talking about "doing it right" ...not just making it functional. Under that criteria ..you can turn a tuneup into an engine overhaul. There's a big difference. You're a pro ..doing pro work. This I could not justify on an older vehicle. You can buy cars with functional ac systems for a little more than you're gonna get for this job.

I'm just saying that I'd have to have a very fat wallet and really LOVE the CAR and REQUIRE AC to fork out that kinda cash. I'll take a $50 gamble on saving $850. I doubt the Z28 will be worth any less without it.

I just caught that you were in CA ..that explains the high labor rate. ..which may make my sig ring true
grin.gif
 
quote:

As far as price I'd say $900 or so if it just needs a new compressor, drier/accumulator, orface tube, flush, new oil and 134a.

I'm sure you could go this high ..but you're up against NEW stand alone add on systems with this price (naturally labor not included).

I would just unplug the electrical lead to the compressor (or pull the appropriate fuse). Get a used junkyard compressor of of like configuration (I can get all I want for less than $25 = U pull-it). Discharge the system and replace it if you feel like it ....and take your chances on the possible reprocussions. You're out $50 and your time.
 
I did not some calling around and found new AC Delco AC Compressor for this Z28 runs about $400 more or less. New bearing $21 and other parts are available to repair the clutch.

Good used parts from reputable salvage yards are just as good as new in many cases. Just because one shop won't do the work, does not mean it not an acceptable repair. The body shop that fixed mine, uses guaranteed used parts all the time, if not they would lose a lot of business. Customers are not going to pay for new parts when used is 1/2 or less the cost.

I know some shops can afford to pick and chose but the customer also has that right.
 
When compressors fail, it really does no good to just replace the compressor. Typically, the entire A/C system is now contaminated with compressor guts.

There is no shortcut when repairing an A/C system. Either do it the right way, or go without.

Black Death

The above forum is sponsered by a A/C shop, but there is a lot of good information provided free for the asking.

I repaired the A/C system in my '92 Lumina myself after having it in and out of the same shop for months last summer after the compressor failed. This place just would not take the time to do the job correctly the first time. They tried making repairs as it was convenient for them...not doing it right the first time. I had to undo everything they did to re-establish a baseline and then I had to make the required repairs.

My experience has shown that there are no shortcuts.

[ February 05, 2005, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: paulo57509 ]
 
Well, that's your experience, Paul. Mine? I took a totally dysfunctional AC R12 AC system on my son's 84 FS Bronco. Did not VAC, purge, or do anything. Added the R-138a (the old stuff with the coagulating compressor oil when mixed with mineral oil) and the system, that was inoperative for 8 years ..worked fine.

My Caravan 92 R-12 system. No seal change out ..no this no that ...just added the (newer) R-138a ...works fine for over a year.

How did I get away with this impossible task??? Must be something like swapping out brake fluid. It only happens to people who know better (I btw took automotive refridgeration in the 70's)

The answer is this simple. I had nothing to lose.
 
I have to side with Chris and Paulo. When it comes to a/c repair, it rarely pays to take shortcuts. Some people may luck out, but I stopped taking shortcuts and using used parts long time ago.

A 97 isn't too old in my book.... it's still a youngster. Fix it the way Chris said. A/C repair is one of the more financially rewarding repairs you can do on a car. It doesn't cost a whole lot to do it right when you DIY.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:


I just caught that you were in CA ..that explains the high labor rate.


Actully I'm basically in the southern end of Death Valley. Summer is my busy time and the customers beat my door down since I'm the cheapest (and best
wink.gif
) in town..........$75/hour.
 
I really like Gary's perspective and its the perspective i use when i can. ITs not like a ineed an icecold a/c system. I may take the whole thing out but for 50$ id be happy to get it working in cas e i need to sell my car and i know i would be able to get it running for that much.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Well, that's your experience, Paul. Mine? I took a totally dysfunctional AC R12 AC system on my son's 84 FS Bronco. Did not VAC, purge, or do anything. Added the R-138a (the old stuff with the coagulating compressor oil when mixed with mineral oil) and the system, that was inoperative for 8 years ..worked fine.

My Caravan 92 R-12 system. No seal change out ..no this no that ...just added the (newer) R-138a ...works fine for over a year.

How did I get away with this impossible task??? Must be something like swapping out brake fluid. It only happens to people who know better (I btw took automotive refridgeration in the 70's)

The answer is this simple. I had nothing to lose.


Please don't tell me that you put 134A into a system that still contained R-12
mad.gif
pat.gif
 
No, they were totally discharged. I had used my last can of R-12 over two years ago. I had a coworker that had 6 cans of R-12 ..but wanted some ridiculous price for it ($50/lb.). I told him that's a fine price for someone investing $1000 in a 30 lb cylinder that's sitting on the truck (or in the shop as it may be - hanging that money out there) ..but he was offering no savings over having it serviced by a shop (aside from the other services that they would want to perform).

I just did the conversion. Works flawlessly. My cost - $36 IIRC. Local AC service, with the only added service being having it vac'd and the O rings changed - $150-200.

No brainer.

I don't begrudge anyone a profit ..but I can't bring myself to provide a "honey bucket" in terms of premiums being placed on services that just doesn't justify the labor charges. This conversion required little skill. It required little special training or equipment. It required very little "real" labor (perhaps one fastener and two o-rings). Any specialized equipment (preset metering dispensers) would add costs ..but reduce labor even further. These "utility" items allegedly pay for themselves ..and shouldn't be passed on in consumer costs, IMHO.

btw-local dealer rate = $75/hr Private shops anywhere from $40-65/hr. The only local services that appear to bring a premium are custom exhausts and trans and rear rebuild/setup. AT repair is in a class by itself for high costs.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:


I just did the conversion. Works flawlessly. My cost - $36 IIRC. Local AC service, with the only added service being having it vac'd and the O rings changed - $150-200.


Ok that makes sense. I was under the impression that you just dumped the R-134a on top of the R-12 which is a major
nono.gif


We call that a retrofit. There's a little more that should be done though.

First you should always replace the Reciever drier/Accumulator. The R-12 dessicant won't work with R-134a.

Depending on the car you should change the orface tube to one thats .010 smaller or put in a VOV tube which compensates automatically.

If the car has a valve instead it should work ok.

Add the proper Pag oil and leave the old mineral oil in the system to act as a barrier in the hoses. Add 4oz of Pag oil for every lb of R-134a.


To be legal you need to install a high pressure shut off switch in the high side line. R-12 does not normally build up high pressures but R-134A will in a matter of seconds if there is no airflow across the condensor.

This switch Should turn the compressor off @ 400psi.

Some cars work fine others do not. Retrofit a 1985 K5 Blazer to R-134a and the customer won't be happy. You will have to sell them a more efficient condensor as the old condensor simply won't work well on a very hot day.

Make sure that their fan clutch is working! Install a 195 Stat and the fan clutch should pull more air at low speeds which will make the A/C work better.

Retrofit a 1985 Ford pickup and it will freeze you out! Ford condensors are much more efficient than GM ones.

Chryslers usually work ok as do most Japanese cars except for Mazda's. IMHO It's generally best to keep a Mazda with R-12 if it originally came with R-12.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom