A Broken Water Softener, Cleaning Ooops, Giving Up

Delta

Delta

Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
3,433
Location
Franklin County, PA
This is more of a tale of buying an older home and dealing with all the trials and tribulations with it.

January 2022 I bought my current house. It had been vacant around July or August 2021 when the previous and original owner was diagnosed with brain cancer months prior and no longer care for themselves. It had an old Water Right water softener dated March 2000. Brine tank was pretty nasty looking and I was just going to replace it right off the bat, but everyone knows how expensive buying a house is. So, I drained all the water out of it, cleaned the tank, refilled the salt tank with fresh pellets, manually did a regen and low and behold it still worked! Hey, score!

October/November 2023 we were still in a particularly dry period and I went and checked on the softener. Low and behold the brine tank was overflowed and nasty looking.

E2lZiEv.jpg


I figured since I have no pre-filter the well may have sucked up some dirt. But, I looked closer at the drain line stung across the basement. Tubing was too thin and squeezed off in several spots. Not to mention there was no trap, and the plumbing was slightly pitched backwards so brine water was backing up into the sump pump by way of slightly seeping backflow valve. This also meant the sump pump was connected to the septic system. That's a big no-no. Everything cut out and re-worked.

Old:

ALbGxQ0.jpg


New:

sGNDq9p.jpg


a2oKmvk.jpg


This is what the salt water did to a formerly nice Zoeller pump

OkzH2rG.jpg


Drained and cleaned the brine tank yet again, filled with fresh salt, and we were back in business!

March 2025 one Saturday evening I went down to grab an adult soda out of the fridge and caught a glimpse of water all over the floor in the pressure tank and water softener area. Fearing the worst the tank went out, I found the brine tank filled itself up and was overflowing out the overflow tube. OK, maybe the plastic drain tubing messed up again as there was a kink in it. Drained a bunch of water out of it, and cleaned the water on the floor the best I could. Went on the ol' Amazon and ordered some thicker tubing. You can kinda see the bottom plate on the wall still wet.

dADHbRJ.jpg


This did unfortunately go all under the wall and the vinyl plank flooring. Set the whole basement dehumidifier to Arizona desert and moved the rug to dry out.

Next morning I woke up and looked in the brine tank. Almost full again. Gah!

Gy5AK4t.jpg


Welp, she's done. Put in bypass mode. Was thinking maybe the water isn't that bad. Couple weeks go by and it's apparent I have some pretty hard water. Weekly tub/shower cleanings with an acid base cleaner. OK, this is my life for a while now.

So I've been noticing the dishwasher which previously would always be spotless inside is now nasty as it can be. Decided yesterday I need to clean it. I had some ZEP calcium, rust, iron remover. Liberally applied (my first mistake) all over the bottom and the staining instantly started melting away. Took a microfiber and scubbed the sides down. Closed the door and set the timer for a rinse only cycle. Not even a minute later I notice the sound of splashing water quickly stopping. Oh, did I mess up. Right then and there a drop of foam came out of the dishwasher and I quickly put a stop to the cycle. Opened up and it was foam city! Had to keep rinsing with cold water and setting the timer to drain. Crisis adverted, but took a while.

Decided enough was enough and opened up the wallet and ordered this unit with a 3/4" head:

https://aquasureusa.com/products/aq...le-house-water-softening-system-32-000-grains

Will be installing a pre-filter this time around. We'll see how much a dumpster fire this all will be.

Hope some of you got a kick out of my little misfortune. Don't be like me and cheap out. I could have lost flooring in the basement and even kitchen had I not been cleaning up after dinner prep.
 
Delta said:
This is more of a tale of buying an older home and dealing with all the trials and tribulations with it.

January 2022 I bought my current house. It had been vacant around July or August 2021 when the previous and original owner was diagnosed with brain cancer months prior and no longer care for themselves. It had an old Water Right water softener dated March 2000. Brine tank was pretty nasty looking and I was just going to replace it right off the bat, but everyone knows how expensive buying a house is. So, I drained all the water out of it, cleaned the tank, refilled the salt tank with fresh pellets, manually did a regen and low and behold it still worked! Hey, score!

October/November 2023 we were still in a particularly dry period and I went and checked on the softener. Low and behold the brine tank was overflowed and nasty looking.

E2lZiEv.jpg


I figured since I have no pre-filter the well may have sucked up some dirt. But, I looked closer at the drain line stung across the basement. Tubing was too thin and squeezed off in several spots. Not to mention there was no trap, and the plumbing was slightly pitched backwards so brine water was backing up into the sump pump by way of slightly seeping backflow valve. This also meant the sump pump was connected to the septic system. That's a big no-no. Everything cut out and re-worked.

Old:

ALbGxQ0.jpg


New:

sGNDq9p.jpg


a2oKmvk.jpg


This is what the salt water did to a formerly nice Zoeller pump

OkzH2rG.jpg


Drained and cleaned the brine tank yet again, filled with fresh salt, and we were back in business!

March 2025 one Saturday evening I went down to grab an adult soda out of the fridge and caught a glimpse of water all over the floor in the pressure tank and water softener area. Fearing the worst the tank went out, I found the brine tank filled itself up and was overflowing out the overflow tube. OK, maybe the plastic drain tubing messed up again as there was a kink in it. Drained a bunch of water out of it, and cleaned the water on the floor the best I could. Went on the ol' Amazon and ordered some thicker tubing. You can kinda see the bottom plate on the wall still wet.

dADHbRJ.jpg


This did unfortunately go all under the wall and the vinyl plank flooring. Set the whole basement dehumidifier to Arizona desert and moved the rug to dry out.

Next morning I woke up and looked in the brine tank. Almost full again. Gah!

Gy5AK4t.jpg


Welp, she's done. Put in bypass mode. Was thinking maybe the water isn't that bad. Couple weeks go by and it's apparent I have some pretty hard water. Weekly tub/shower cleanings with an acid base cleaner. OK, this is my life for a while now.

So I've been noticing the dishwasher which previously would always be spotless inside is now nasty as it can be. Decided yesterday I need to clean it. I had some ZEP calcium, rust, iron remover. Liberally applied (my first mistake) all over the bottom and the staining instantly started melting away. Took a microfiber and scubbed the sides down. Closed the door and set the timer for a rinse only cycle. Not even a minute later I notice the sound of splashing water quickly stopping. Oh, did I mess up. Right then and there a drop of foam came out of the dishwasher and I quickly put a stop to the cycle. Opened up and it was foam city! Had to keep rinsing with cold water and setting the timer to drain. Crisis adverted, but took a while.

Decided enough was enough and opened up the wallet and ordered this unit with a 3/4" head:

https://aquasureusa.com/products/aq...le-house-water-softening-system-32-000-grains

Will be installing a pre-filter this time around. We'll see how much a dumpster fire this all will be.

Hope some of you got a kick out of my little misfortune. Don't be like me and cheap out. I could have lost flooring in the basement and even kitchen had I not been cleaning up after dinner prep.
Click to expand...
this is how i did up my softener and pre filters. makes sure no sediment ever makes it to the softener. the drain line is run all the way the the street sloped appropriately. drain line is 1/2” pex-a transitioned to 1/2” sch. 40 PVC on the exterior.

IMG_0784.webp
 
I had a similar problem when I lived up north. What I found on my system was that the brine is sucked out of the brine tank by means of an ejector orfice. Fresh water pulls the brine from the tank, and does not use a pump or anything to move it throught the zeolite.
My drain line was overhead, like yours. I found out that the overhead lines were creating too much back pressure for the ejector to work,
I fixed it by running the drain line straight to the sump pump, which was in the floor. I never had an issue after that.

Since you must drain overhead, you MAY need to add an additional container for the drain line, and install a small additional sump pump in it to pump the water overhead, Or you can keep the drain line low and large, like 1/2" PVC and run it all the way to the sump pump.
 
The OP's problem may have been the float valve in the brine tank not working/adjusted properly. Did he mention servicing that?

The softener drain line into the sewage line should have an air gap (code). https://airgap.com/product-category/water-softener-airgaps/

The Terry Love plumbing forum is the very best place for DIY softener education regarding brands, design and sizing, handling iron, settings, etc..

This is an excellent starting point: https://www.aquatell.ca/pages/ultimate-water-softener-guide
Hach Model 5-B Water Hardness Test Kit is good to have.
 
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Wow, never thought about overhead drain lines. Mine discharges into the floor drain 2 feet away from it...easy.
 
tbm5690 said:
Wow, never thought about overhead drain lines. Mine discharges into the floor drain 2 feet away from it...easy.
Click to expand...
The rule of thumb is "The drain should not be more than 30 feet away from the softener and the drain line should not be elevated more than 8 feet above the floor. " The drain tubing should be increased to 3/4 inch ID when doing these longer distances.
 
The brine tank float was stuck the first time, gunked up. That was freed up and worked for over a year afterwards. The final straw was an internal problem with the head on the softener leaking fresh water into the brine tank constantly. Could it maybe be repaired? Yes? Is it worth it on a 25 year old softener? No.

I know the overhead line is not ideal, but I do not have any floor drain system in my house as it isn't on municipal sewer and the sump pit is just a groundwater infiltration pit if water levels get high. There's a short run of rubber tubing that goes into 3/4" SCH40 PVC which dumps into an 1 1/2" stand pipe and then trap. Should it have an air gap? Yes. I'm very aware. The total run is approx 20' long and 4' above the softener, or 7' from the floor. It has been like that for years. Dumping the backwash into the sump pit is out of question. They did that at one time and the pit is almost rusted out and probably trashed who knows how many pumps. There's no where to dump the water outside and not destroy grass or vegetation. I live in a rural area where it's all farm land and no sidewalks/curbs to pump it out to. There is doorway in the way of running a lower drain line unfortunately. Not optimal, but it is what it is. The house was originally serviced from the cistern that is out back and serves as my patio. The well was added later. Cistern only serves outside spigots as it takes a lot of work to be able to use it as water service.
 
Thanks for sharing. My situation is very similar in all aspects. Country, septic tank, used to dump into sump pit/now overhead into short stand pipe (with air gap, lol). We could dig a separate, rock filled drain pit - I'm too lazy and at least half the literature says it's o.k. to dump into a septic system (maybe not for a huge water using family). 25 years is a good run and time for a new one.

Have you done a good water test (hardness, iron, etc.) to allow you to tweak the softener settings for maximum efficiency (less salt and water use)?
 
doitmyself said:
Thanks for sharing. My situation is very similar in all aspects. Country, septic tank, used to dump into sump pit/now overhead into short stand pipe (with air gap, lol). We could dig a separate, rock filled drain pit - I'm too lazy and at least half the literature says it's o.k. to dump into a septic system (maybe not for a huge water using family). 25 years is a good run and time for a new one.

Have you done a good water test (hardness, iron, etc.) to allow you to tweak the softener settings for maximum efficiency (less salt and water use)?
Click to expand...

Haven't done a test yet, but have a dropper test kit on the way so I know where to set the regen gallons at.

Realistically you should use potassium pellets if your softener goes into the septic, but it's like $45 a bag compared to $8 for pellet salt. I've read the salt does some funky stuff on the top of the tank, but I can't remember exactly. I have mine pumped out more frequently anyways due to the system being 60 years old.
 
I’m all for repairing things instead of replacing, but sometimes it doesn’t make sense to repair. I have that same Aquasure softener. It works great and uses little salt. Also, the regens are based on gallons used, whereas your old softener was likely time based, so you will save further on salt and water with fewer regens.

Long term, it is a batter move to get a new softener IMO.
 
So the softener arrived today in one piece. To my surprise it came with a big honkin' pre-filter assembly. Well, that saves me from buying one! Don't know if it's because I bought it from the manufacture instead of Home Depot, but I saw installation videos of people who bought the same softener from HD and there wasn't a filter assembly in the box.

Started to prep everything and hung the filter. It's beefy and I had to use a 2x6 mounted to the concrete block.

fpMf1kE.jpg


Also installed better tubing for the drain. I understand all the controversy over it. Kind of is what it is moment.

QOwmu1M.jpg


9PsVCup.jpg


Going to be installing everything else next weekend. Only concern is getting the old 3/4" x 1/2" copper male out of the tank tee. Looks like someone put The Hulk strength on it tightening it.

GwF1b3x.jpg
 
I'd love to have an expander for PEX A, but darn they're expensive!

I've been slowly converting my house over to PEX B and upsizing the pipe as I go along. I have no problem with copper, but everything is aging out and PEX is cheaper and easier to work with.
 
Delta said:
I'd love to have an expander for PEX A, but darn they're expensive!

I've been slowly converting my house over to PEX B and upsizing the pipe as I go along. I have no problem with copper, but everything is aging out and PEX is cheaper and easier to work with.
Click to expand...
i bought a dewalt on closeout from lowe’s for $200. only yellow tool i own lol. i just didn’t want to upsize everything a size to keep flow rates acceptable with B. not to mention A is way more flexible and allows making turns without 90’s in most circumstances.
 
BrendanC said:
i bought a dewalt on closeout from lowe’s for $200. only yellow tool i own lol. i just didn’t want to upsize everything a size to keep flow rates acceptable with B. not to mention A is way more flexible and allows making turns without 90’s in most circumstances.
Click to expand...

Right now there's 1/2" copper feeding the house so any little bit helps in this case :ROFLMAO:
 
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